I'm preaching our praise of God's blessings to us through His Providence. I'm saying we should give thanks to Him for what He has given us as unmerited as we may be. It was, is, and will be His Providence that gave and sustains the economic and political systems that we enjoy. It has nothing to do with God's praise of us which no man deserves. It has nothing to do with a covenant or birthright or merit or anything like that. It certainly has nothing to do with arrogance! You keep getting that twisted around to fit your argument. Get over it - it's not the point that was made!
I don't know why God blessed this nation but I'm really glad He did. It suits His purposes. I do know that if we don't appreciate what He's given us, if we fall in love with something else that's inferior to it, if we don't try to be Godly men and women in this great nation, and if we keep trying to push Him out of every venue known to man then I think His patience will ultimately pass and He may well remove His blessings from us.
And that sounds like God is specifically invested in this nation, rather than working on the individual level. In the Old Covenant, God worked through a nation. After Christ, the "holy nation" is now spiritual. In America, there have always been true Christians and non-Christians or nominal/cultural Christians. The latter group has more recently risen up, and used an electronic media that did not exist 200 years ago, the promote its beliefs and values. (And this, largely because many Christians in the past shunned the world, yet expected the maintain influence over it).
But it also puts my loyalty squarely with America so long as it holds true to the basic ideals upon which it was founded. Despite today's problems I haven't given up on this nation and I think through God's hand we can restore her to the right path.
Again, now, it looks as if God is particularly uinvested in this nation as a whole, and now, the "basic ideals" are like sort of an extension of scripture, that both we and God judge the nation over.
The vast bulk of the historical record clearly supports exactly what I'm saying. It is liberalism - whether you like the term or not - that seeks to destroy and alter that record.
That is more of a reaction to a lot of the evils of the past, which are justified as God's doing, or just "little, occasional flaws". And yes, some want to completely overturn the system; some want just to fix the problems, but rely on policies that don't work, and then others are just trying to set the record straight. Of course, you have set it up like some titanic battle of the ages, where you're the good guys, and those dreaded liberals have nothing better to do than take away what God gave you. Now, think about that. Is that reality, or it is something we got out of a fictional story (Superfriends vs Legion of Doom)?
You may or may not know that's what you're doing but you are no the less. Now, if you don't lean this direction, then clearly so state - It's not that hard to do! I read you're repeated denials of what you're not but I read no clear statement of where you do stand or than against most everything. I read you're repeated discredits of America but I read no praise of America.
I've told you where I stand, but because it's not taking a stand on one side or the other, to fit your "good vs evil" story, you dismiss it.
I'm only obligated to God to sumbit to the powers that I live under. And that i do. I don't have to like it, any more than the Christians liked being under the Romans. As I said earlier, I do not know what it is like to be under another system, so it's hard to completely compare. I know some things I hear about, I do not like, such as dictatorships, or persecution of Christianity. So I do not push for those systems either. I'm used to this one, so this is what I want to stick with. Yet there are problems here I see, that I think can be addressed, and I'm into addressing them more than imposing a solution.* I become alarmed when I see people taking hard sides, and then pl;acing blame squarely on the other. It is never all one side's fault. so the problem will never be solved that way. Yet, people will get a good fix stroking the ego doing that, as the nation slides into chaos.
As I pointed out in the Grasshopper thread, your side had an almost solid three decades of convervative leadership, but you're still not happy, and still constantly griping about the liberals.
Something is surely amiss. Something must not be working on your side, or, the focus is off. So I get tired of the blaming, and I have the right to voice my opinion about it.
*
A long time ago, I tried to start a thread on temperament (which is connected with "personality type"), but it never caught on. Some Christians use temperament and type (Like LaHaye), while others, especially the old-liners, condemn any form of "psychology" just like they condemn CCM and modern Bible translations. But that explains my outlook. I'm more into thinking and looking at possibilities than planning and implementing. And I lean toward logic more than values (such as loyalty to a nation or cause, etc), which I tend to see people becoming self-righteous with at times, and hence react.
You are in no position to pretend that you're the only one around here who's not "mixed up" or who's the only one whose "first allegiance is to God!" No one, except you, has brought up the subject of "it keeps being equated with Christ" - no one has even remotely suggested such a thing! One more time, EricB, the point being made is that we have been blessed by God by this great nation in which we live. The point is, in fact, that God is supreme over all things - including the so called secular world and the domain of civil government as well. You are confusing just about every point being made perhaps because you're very upset over something or someone. Friend, as fellow Christians, we are all His bond slaves. But, do you deny that God himself created the institution of civil government to serve His purposes on this earth? Do you deny that God has blessed America with its great political and economic systems? You are blind to history if you can not discern that! Do you deny that, even as Christians, we have enjoyed far better temporal grace under these systems than any other? You have tasted nothing else and are ignorant of the alternatives if you can not understand that! Be grateful to the Lord for all that He gives us and learn to recognize and appreciate those gifts even such as the nation in which we live. It is right under your nose! You do help our enemies when you put this down.
Again; why don't you follow your own admonition here, when you and others want to rail on about "grasshoppers" and other "enemies" and their systems trying to take something from you. Again; only you are allowed to complain about anything. It's all about us, and Satan's master scheme is for these "enemies" to do something to us. You may not have directly equated the nation with Christ, but all of this rhetoric clearly implies it.
You have all these blessings you talk about, but are not happy with them, because of what you think someone else is doing or trying to do. Yet you try to tell me to be uncritically happy.
By your own statement there, those liberal "civil governments" are also under God's authority. If He wants or allows them to take us over, then that would just as much be apart of His will. But no; not
us! God would never allow that on us, or if He does; it's all these stinking liberals' fault. Again; who do we think we are?
Stop trying to pacify me. As I just said in the other thread, this subforum has long been a huge gripefest, and I only recently began joining in. So All of these threads, I see
your side complaining about things; (I didn't start these topics), and then I jump in, offering another perspective you are ignoring. Didn't say I was in any special position where I see everything clearly, but I can surely see some things others (especially those towing a party line) have missed. You are so immersed in your ideology, you see me as "whining" and all of this other stuff, but don't recognize the familiar background noise that has already been going on.
