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In what area's of life should disciples of Christ be concerned with?
- Thread starter CalTech
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Am I surprised that you are appealing to laws made by men?
No.
Don't you find just a little bit of hypocrisy in charging others with sin and then committing the sin you preach against?
Continued...
Sure it does.
Address the Scripture already provided and show how it doesn't support my view.
Continued...
CalTech
Active Member
Greetings,
All false. We are not subjected to obey Laws that go against the Lord's rule for His Spiritual Children, for His Kingdom sake. No where does the Lord or His Apostles inform us to take up arms against the "world's enemies". Regarding Cesar, he was talking about taxes nothing more. Period.
We are never instructed to fight for the wars of set up by wicked men. Period.....
Regarding Galatians 5: 1, That has nothing to do with the subject at hand. That is concerning the Law which we are NOT enslaved too, but the Freedom in Christ by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
This brings my communication with you at an end. False teacher that you are.
In the here and now.
Didn't you get the memo?
There is only one world church, that is the Body of Christ.
And we are united by one thing in the here and now: the Word of God.
When our doctrine and practice differs, we must allow Scripture to make the decision between what is true and what is false.
Baseless accusation.
And until you address the Scripture provided you are guilty of false witness.
I have addressed yours, as well as your comments in detail. The least you could do, OP Cal, is return the favor.
We shall see what stands or falls.
It won't because the Body of Christ will be mercifully taken out of this world when Antichrist comes on the scene.
Sure it does. It follows the first-century practice and doctrine of the Apostles.
It follows the example of the Old Testament faithful.
It follows the doctrine and practice of Christ Himself.
Standing up against evil is just what we do, my friend.
God bless.
CalTech
Active Member
Greetings,
How deceitful of you. Laws made by so-called "Christian" men have no authority to do so, nor do they have any authority by the Lord to press "government leaders" that laws be made to reflect a "christian culture". So I am not being a hypocrite, but you are filled with guile.
Again, I would ask you, Mr. OP, to fix your post that I might address it with the proper timestamp.
It is important we do all things properly and in order, and the tactic of poor posting skills hinders that and allows for confusion. So please change how you are authoring.
God bless.
CalTech
Active Member
Greetings,
I have given all the scriptures that is needed along with DavidG. The Testimony has been written and that is all there is needed to respond to your baseless claims.
I shall not fall prey to your manipulative and deceitful ploys to entrap.
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
In His Love.....
How's that going for you?
Again, those trying to censor freedom of speech and the address of evil show their true intent.
That is more in line with the Liberal Agenda and the Democratic Mafia than it is in a Christian Discussion and Debate Forum.
I have abided by the rules, and it is not a serious breach of Forum Decorum to ask a Moderator something about a statement he felt was appropriate to make in this thread.
Sorry, Cal, your desire to rule is not a characteristic of the servant of God. How we shut down the foolishness of men, and stop the mouths of the wicked is through the Word of God, not by trying to throw our weight around. Because all members of the Body are ultimately equal, though we have those that rule over us.
I'm dealing with you.
Deal with it.
God bless.
And I believe Dave is very sincere in his views, and believes that he is speaking and practicing what he feels Scripture commands of the believer.
And I am okay with that: we will all answer for our doctrine and practice to the Lord, so I will not condemn Dave for his beliefs.
Debate them, yes. Condemn him, no.
However, it is pretty evident that you feel you have the authority to condemn me, and others that believe the way we do.
Are you then the accuser of the brethren? Or stand in judgment of our salvation?
We have One Lord, and it is to Him alone that I will look to for understanding of Scripture and how I am to put that into practice in this world.
Continued...
CalTech
Active Member
Greetings,
"Sure it does. It follows the first-century practice and doctrine of the Apostles.
It follows the example of the Old Testament faithful.
It follows the doctrine and practice of Christ Himself.
Standing up against evil is just what we do, my friend."
No I am standing up against your evil, and I am not your friend........I only follow the Lord's true disciples after the Spirit and not after the flesh.
I pray the Lord forgive you and your pride, and grant you repentance.
in His Love....
Do you see me saying Blah Blah Blah to my antagonist? lol
Jude 1:3
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
What you don't understand, Cal, is that we feel we are contending for the faith when we speak out against the evils of kings and those in power.
And we feel those that support such men have no right to try to make their evil correspond to what Scripture teaches.
If you doubt my sincerity, stick around.
I take these issues very seriously, just as I take people teaching doctrine and practice contrary to a Biblical view seriously.
No wax on my doctrine or practice, Cal.
Continued...
CalTech
Active Member
Greetings,
Dave and I agree, and I've never condemned you, the Lord's Word condemns you.......
Speak what you may, it has no bearing upon me........
Okay, so because I oppose your doctrine and practice and feel it falls more in line with the Liberal Agenda's and the Democratic Mafia's desire to force men to embrace ungodly and evil doctrine and practice I am a bully.
But you can threaten to censor me, call me names, and shout at me—but you're not a bully.
?
Continued...
Oh, so you had no intention of hearing the views of others?
So why didn't you respond to my posting? It addressed the OP according to the conditions set. It provided Scripture to support the reasoning behind my views.
And you know, when this...
...is followed by this...
...I have a hard time seeing any love.
If the Lord is going to rebuke me, my friend, He is going to do it through you.
You are the one who is supposed to patiently teach me why I am in error, if in fact you have any intention of showing me the love of Christ as you are commanded to do by God.
You can still do that, Cal, the thread is still going forward.
Continued...
LOL, you are presenting falsehood right and left.
Did I say we are to go against "the Lord's rule?" Nope, thus disinformation. Here again is what I posted: "Giving to Cesar what belongs to Cesar (ruler over the area) includes serving according to the laws unless precluded by God's law.
Did I say we are to take up arms against the "world's enemies." Nope, thus disinformation. I quoted Romans 13:3-4!
As far as giving to Cesar, the instruction was not limited to taxes. The question was to trap Jesus in a statement that was against the law, and thus enable them to hand Jesus over to the jurisdiction and authority of the governor.
Did anyone say we are to fight for war set up by wicked men? Perhaps. I was drafted and the draft was and is lawful in the USA.
Thus according to scripture, I had an obligation to render unto Cesar my involuntary servitude. Was the Viet Nam war a war of wicked men? Probably, but at the time, almost everyone in the Legislature voted for it.
If you read Hebrews 11, note the occupation of the last 5 individuals mentioned by name. Hebrews 11:32 Thus serving as soldiers did not preclude being named as OT Saints.
It's deceitful of me to point out that you forbid others to make up laws and that this is not our role as Christians—that its hypocritical?
It's just the truth, Cal.
Or are you going to say separation of church and state isn't a law of man? A doctrine of man. And a practice of men?
No one said this law was made up by Christians, but that it was made up by men. It's root being the doctrine of a man that rejected anything supernatural. A man that also decided he could dismiss from Scripture those things not convenient to what he wanted to believe.
You have the opportunity to repent of your false witness here, Cal, by admitting that separation of church and state is a man-made law not based on Scripture, or a Christian viewpoint.
Continued...
"I have spoken!"
Sorry, but this is a Christian Doctrinal Discussion and Debate Forum. That means we discuss and debate doctrine, Cal.
Appealing to a proof text to avoid what Scripture teaches elsewhere and to shirk your responsibility to care for the lives of others, especially of those of the household of faith—isn't going to satisfy those who do take all of Scripture seriously and try their best to bring the broader context of its teaching into their lives as guiding principles.
Continued...
Gee, can't we all just get along?
I want to be your friend, Cal, and only you can keep that from happening.
You say you haven't condemned me, yet you call me evil. That I am of a spirit that is not of God. That my doctrine and practice is fleshly.
But you cannot bring forth the first Scripture to validate those accusations.
See the problem you have there, buddy?
See the problem you have here, friend?
Let me give you a little advice concerning Christian Doctrinal Discussion and Debate, since you are apparently unskilled in both the Word and the exercise of the Word: when your doctrine is in error, all those who hold to sound doctrine have to do is continue in the discussion. Somewhere along the line one's words are going to condemn them, and they are going to be found liars.
When your doctrine is sound, again, just continue in the discussion. Because you will be able to continually bring forth from the Word of God what His will for His people is, and how the words, doctrines, and practices of the unbelieving conflict with His will.
I have no fear of the Liberal Agenda, nor the Democratic Mafia, because I know Who is Sovereign, and Who is actually in control of—everything. Do you really think this world is theirs? Do you really think that God allowing godless men to be in power somehow diminishes the fact that He is God Almighty and sovereign in all affairs of the world?
Where was Barack O'Biden when God laid the foundations of this world he trespasses through?
No, this is not their world, and we are not to help them in their trespass and offense against God and His Word.
We are to stand against evil, even when that evil comes from those God has allowed to have authority over us while we are in the world. We are in the world, but of the world. Until you realize that you have a responsibility to both your neighbor and your brother you will not be in the will of God.
And as long as you advocate for a retreat from the world you empower evil in this world.
But I will not condemn you for that, Cal. If you feel you should not be in the military, okay. If you feel you should not vote, okay. But don't try to tell those who have the testimony of countless martyrs who did stand in opposition to wickedness and evil among those in power—that they can't.
God bless.
Not physical arms, but we are in warfare.
Peter's government said, "We forbid you to preach in Jesus' Name." Peter stood in opposition of that by preaching in Jesus' Name.
Your very statement denies your own doctrine: you have to admit that when governments make laws that are contrary to God's then we are to oppose those laws.
What do you think opposing abortion on demand is?
I think we can see more in the Lord's teaching.
I will not render to Caesar a validation of his evil ways. And that is what Ceasar is demanding. That we, Christians, accept their evil and stop calling it evil.
Deny it.
I agree, there is no mandate to go to physical war.
That doesn't change the fact that we are at war, and that our efforts against a corrupt government (the Democratic Mafia) led by Satan through the Liberal Agenda are viewed as a mandate by God.
It has everything to do with the subject at hand.
The problem here is that you have no interest in seeing others liberated from Satan's snares.
No condemnation?
Follow the rules?
The reason you won't continue the discussion is because you cannot address the points and Scripture he presented you with anything but anger and condemnation.
That is more akin to the response of all governing officials throughout Biblical History than it is from a servant of the Lord.
Do you see, Cal, that your doctrine simply doesn't leave you any recourse but emotional response? Doesn't that bother you? It should. As a servant of God rightly dividing the Word it should be you that is causing Satan to flee, if in fact that is the warfare you are in engaged in.
James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
We show our submission to God by first finding ourselves in His will, then secondly implementing His will in the warfare we engage in.
While you reject my friendship, it is there for you. My only goal is to help. How you choose to resist the devil is your decision, but don't presume to tell others that how they resist the devil must conform to what you think Scripture teaches.
Particularly when you have only a couple of proof-texts in your quiver, no bow, and no sword of the Spirit.
God bless.
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