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CalTech

Active Member
Principles of God's will are found before the establishment of the Covenant of Law. The principle of supporting those who preach, teach, minister the Word of God is an example. That is seen before, during, and after the Law. Vicarious death is another: that begins in the Garden, continues through the Law, and is ultimately fulfilled in Christ.

Ideally, God is to be the Governor, but He still had those who governed. A Judge might be a good example. Israel rejected God as their Sole Governor and clamored for a king like other nations. And unfortunately, that is the state we find ourselves in today.

In another thread dealing with the death penalty, something came up I will present for your consideration: while some would refuse to sit on a jury for such a case, wouldn't it be beneficial for those with a Biblical view to sit as "judges" of the proceedings? That is the basic principle of trial by a jury of our peers, right? We should have the discernment to perceive corrupt proceedings. And wouldn't we want a just judge? Would a judge be more prone to condemn if he/she were a racist?

Could you explain to me why it simply doesn't matter whether we have Bible-believing people making decisions that have a great impact on our lives as Christians?

You understand that our freedom to post your views on a public forum is due to the fact that God-fearing men felt it necessary to stipulate your freedom of speech, right?


God bless.


Greetings,

First:
"Principles of God's will are found before the establishment of the Covenant of Law. The principle of supporting those who preach, teach, minister the Word of God is an example. That is seen before, during, and after the Law. Vicarious death is another: that begins in the Garden, continues through the Law, and is ultimately fulfilled in Christ."

"Ideally, God is to be the Governor, but He still had those who governed. A Judge might be a good example. Israel rejected God as their Sole Governor and clamored for a king like other nations. And unfortunately, that is the state we find ourselves in today."

All of the above is of the Old Testament for the purpose of the Nation of Israel, that has NO standing for us in the Christ's Kingdom, for it is NOT of the this world.

Now regarding the "Death penalty", please stick to the present topic, in this THREAD and make a comment in the appropriate "Death Posting".....thank you.

"Could you explain to me why it simply doesn't matter whether we have Bible-believing people making decisions that have a great impact on our lives as Christians?"

We do, it's called the Body of Christ, and Pastor's/teacher's/deacon's/ Bishop's who are picked NOT by popular vote but are to be chosen by the Holy Spirit. The world has NOTHING to do with us, and we have nothing to do with the world, except be Witnesses for Christ and testify of His Gospel.

"You understand that our freedom to post your views on a public forum is due to the fact that God-fearing men felt it necessary to stipulate your freedom of speech, right?"

As long as that "FREEDOM of speech" is following the rules of the Lord's Biblical standing, and not according to the will of men. And since when is "censoring" truth, that will "offend" certain people acceptable by the Lord's Word? You can not!

Thank you for responding

The Lord bless you....
In His Love....
 

CalTech

Active Member
I

Its been well over 15 years since I hosted my show
and it was just a local show - and well before radio being on the internet.

The Name was SOS - The School of Scrutiny


Greetings,

Please let us keep to the topic at hand, this type of "communication" should be used by "Private message".
Thank you.....I do know you understand the reasoning for this request.

The Lord bless you .....
In His Love....
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Respectfully, it seems to me that you act as if life giving and life taking are "what-ifs" that we as men govern...
They aren't.

Dave, you are ignoring quite a bit of instruction we have been given. Let's start here:


2 Timothy 2:24-26 King James Version

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.



Your position is leaving men to die.

And babies.

In view is the Christian striving to instruct those ensnared by the devil. Thank goodness you don't have a leg to stand on in this debate, else I might be found guilty of striving.

;)


According to God's word, He gives life and He takes it.
A man's days are in the hands of the Lord ( Job 12:10, Job 14:5 ).

Your comrade in arms would have to disagree with you based on his particular reasoning: he doesn't think the principles of the Old Testament are relevant to Christians.

I see quite a few points I raised going unaddressed, so I will break this up to make it easier for me to repost when these new ones aren't addressed. Please start with the point above, and show why the Scripture is not commanding us that we are to instruct those who have been ensnared by the devil. Those who condone and perpetuate the murder of infants being up there on that list.


Continued...
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
He sees all that is happening, and He will execute Judgement when it is time.

Meantime, back at the well ...


1 Timothy 1:18-20 King James Version

18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.



First, we are at war. That means we don't "let go and let God."

One of chief adversaries we will face in this war is going to be those who creep into the church, posing as believers, and teaching false doctrine that leads men away from the truth and into false doctrine and practice that actually is of the world.

Abortion on demand is one of the fables Satan has deceived many with: that the unborn is not a person and therefore they have no rights, nor should any defend them.


1 Timothy 2 King James Version

1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.



Well gosh, it seems that who is in power is to be a concern for Christians after all.

Imagine that.

And why? Well, Paul seems to be a selfish fellow, thinking Christians should have a quiet and peaceable life.

I would suggest to you that God is well-pleased with those who intercede on behalf of the unborn by giving attention to kings and those who are in power.

And salvation is a primary reason for instructing those who oppose themselves, because we know that no murderer has a place in the Kingdom of God.


1 Timothy 4 King James Version

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.


11 These things command and teach.



Note the word "specially." I have provided a link to make it clear that we labor and suffer reproach because we trust in God, who is especially the God of those that are already believing.

What that means is that we do not labor simply for the believing, as you and the OP suggest. I don't know about you but evangelism is a key element in my attempts to instruct those who have fallen into the snare of the devil, and I strongly suggest that those who advocate for murder are desperately ensnared.

So note "specially," this demands that we instruct unbelievers, which is, as most Christians know, our primary goal in and for the world that you guys are teaching we should avoid.


Continue...
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Darrell C said:

Lastly, can you tell me that the opposition of Christians against abortion doesn't change anything?



Not one thing.

You ignored my point concerning those women who are persuaded by Pro-Life advocacy not to have abortions.

Does the life of an unborn child mean so little to you?

You really do not think that even one life spared is a victory?

Therefore, this question will stand alone, because I would really like to hear your Christian view as to why you don't think saving the lives of unborn babies matters at all.


Continued...
 

CalTech

Active Member
Hey, I appreciate the response. No fun in everybody agreeing, right?

;)

Plus, I don't expect a response from the OP. I'm thinking he has me on ignore.




I would have to disagree with that.

First, I would ask you, are our efforts in vain if only a few lives are saved? What I mean is this: numerous pro-life groups do their very best to persuade women planning to have an abortion to carry the child to term. Would you consider that as "nothing changed?"

Secondly, it's pretty obvious that the Republican Party caters to the Christian and conservative people of this country, seeing it has been a focal issue in their campaigns for quite some time. Do you think they would do that if it were not for the opposition that believers, as well as unbelievers, have presented against abortion?

If you want to see change, simply get all of the Christians who currently voice their opinion on the issue to quit, and it is very likely we might see the Republican party stop running on this issue.

Third, we are to oppose evil no matter what others think, and the murder of the unborn is an evil we can make a difference about.

Lastly, can you tell me that the opposition of Christians against abortion doesn't change anything? Do you think it would be as big an issue if Christians stopped voicing their opinions about it?

I've heard story after story of mothers and children whose lives were affected by the Christians not only speaking out against abortion, pro-actively ministering to those who have been brain-washed by the Liberal Agenda.




How so?

Do we base our opposition on what the Supreme Court has to say on the matter, or what the Word of God has to say? The Supreme Court is always going to change, by reason of death, but the Word of God and the principles therein are timeless.




I hate to tell you this, but our voice certainly matters to them.

Who do you think they went to war against?

And they are winning. They have stopped the mouths of many Christians. They have normalized what not so long ago was accepted as evil.

So having those who advocate a further retreat from the fight against evil (and that is precisely what I see the OP doing, I do not see anything remotely Christian about it) is in my view ridiculous. Particularly when it is supposedly a Christian doing it.

And before I break my soapbox, I will also mention what I view to be probably the worst result of the Liberal and anti-biblical propositions of the OP: there are many people I believe who falsely believe they are Christians, but aren't. We see them advocating a further retreat from what we are called to do, and that is to preach the Gospel. As you mention, a core element of the Gospel is that we are preaching and teaching to those who are dead. I have a hard time believing those who reject Scripture's teaching that homosexuality, murder, and being light in the darkness of this world are in fact Christians. How someone can be a Christian and not only embrace evil doctrine so blatantly unbiblical but go out and seek to subvert others with their false doctrine is beyond me.

And I'll be honest, the OP seems more like the ministry of Atheism than a Christian discussion.



And even if outlawed, adultery will continue. Murder will continue. Hatred will continue.

Doesn't mean we stop preaching and teaching that it is wrong.




On the contrary, who exactly do you think God uses to bring men to the truth?

If we step away from our responsibilities the only thing we have accomplished is that we have given the other side free reign.

And that is precisely what the Body of Christ has done in the last forty years. That is why the Liberal Agenda is so powerful. You may not remember the Johnson and Johnson boycott not too terribly long ago. There was a call for Christians to boycott because they were supporting the Homosexual Agenda (which is just one horn of that beast, the Liberal Agenda). J and J caved in.

Seems like Christians had an impact there.




There is no new birth apart from the Gospel. And how shall they hear, Dave?




And you, my friend. I appreciate the response.


God bless.

Greetings,

I am the Original Poster of this topic, and your presumption's that I may have you on "ignored" is the furthest from the truth, as is the rest of your fleshly and human reasoning of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Apostles.

Oh you put up the "words" to fight for your "opinion" only based upon your fleshly heart discernment. There is nothing of the Holy Spirit in your belief's it is all "religion" after the traditions of men.

Also
"Hey, I appreciate the response. No fun in everybody agreeing, right?"
;)"
Plus, I don't expect a response from the OP. I'm thinking he has me on ignore.


No "FUN" in everybody agreeing right? Are YOU serious? FUN? This is all a joke to you it would seem.
This is what the Lord has to say regarding that "attitude", He takes His Truth very seriously, as do the Apostles.
Truth will offend the guilty.......plain and simple......the flesh hates the truth, but the Holy Spirit shall grant us the grace to grasp the truth and sell it not.

Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Luk 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Luk 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:



I have learned this:

Joh 2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
Joh 2:25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

I have learned to not place my trust in any man, for as we mature in the ways and things of the Lord, we shall be able to discern what is of the Lord and what is not.
Your arguments against David G, and myself hold no water, your foundation is built upon the sandy fallacies of man's human reasoning......and nothing more......

The Lord bless you.....
In His Love.....
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
As Christians we can stand in the road in front of the "truck" that is this world, and except the Lord deliver us from evil men and / or answer our prayers for peace, they will roll over the top of us and keep right on going without even looking back....

But from where I'm standing, it is you and the OP that are advocating for a "stand in front of the truck (God will take care of it)" attitude.

And since when is tribulation for preaching the Gospel a new thing?

And that is what we are doing in regard to the world. We address the antichrist mentality of people who are leading men away from the Lord. The Democratic Party has become the Democratic Mafia, they are a criminal organization, and because of their doctrine and practice, we are not leading quiet and peaceable lives.

Have you not noticed that every time the Democratic Mafia is in power the death toll rises? Terrorist activities increase?

King Barack O'Biden made it a promise to strengthen Abortion as a promise to his followers.

And we are supposed to think we sit by and not say a word?

Absolutely incredible.


They are not interested in listening to you and to me, they are interested in having their own way no matter what.

As a matter of fact they are very interested in what we have to say.

Why do you think they are trying to create a governmental "disinformation office?"

Why do you think Christian values become taboo on social media sites?

Honestly, Dave, I seriously have a hard time believing that you haven't taken notice of these issues. And I find it hard to believe, seeing that you come to a Christian Forum for the very purpose of instructing men, that you would have a problem with Christians standing against the evils of the world.


That is mankind according to Romans 1, for example, except the Lord be gracious to any of us.

What difference does that make for the believer that should be about the Lord's business, which is seek to see lost men and women saved?

How much more when it is a matter of the physical lives of people?

Can we love our neighbor and sit by idly while they kill themselves and others?

Where exactly did the "Hall of Faith" in Hebrews 11 gain a good report? Heads in the sand? Or in the world?


1 Peter 5:8-9 King James Version

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.



Where did Paul suffer affliction? Head in the sand, or in the world, going toe to toe with the devil and those he has ensnared?

Well, we are in the world, and our business is warfare. Not with flesh and blood, but with spiritual wickedness. We can't sit idly by while the world goes to Hell in a handbasket:


John 17:15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.



1 Corinthians 5:9-10 King James Version

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.



We are in the world, and Paul is here teaching that we are not to retreat from the world, which is what you and the OP suggest Christians should do.

While I can understand that mentality, I do not see it as the end result of a New Testament filled with instruction for the Church to seek to make a difference in this world. To be light.

Your view is in my view hiding your light under a basket.


God bless.
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Greetings,

I am the Original Poster of this topic, and your presumption's that I may have you on "ignored" is the furthest from the truth, as is the rest of your fleshly and human reasoning of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Apostles.

Stick to the OP. If you want to discuss off-topic issues please PM.

I'll deal with your nonsense when I am finished with addressing Dave's posts.

Please stick around.


God bless.
 

CalTech

Active Member
Meantime, back at the well ...


1 Timothy 1:18-20 King James Version

18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.



First, we are at war. That means we don't "let go and let God."

One of chief adversaries we will face in this war is going to be those who creep into the church, posing as believers, and teaching false doctrine that leads men away from the truth and into false doctrine and practice that actually is of the world.

Abortion on demand is one of the fables Satan has deceived many with: that the unborn is not a person and therefore they have no rights, nor should any defend them.


1 Timothy 2 King James Version

1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.



Well gosh, it seems that who is in power is to be a concern for Christians after all.

Imagine that.

And why? Well, Paul seems to be a selfish fellow, thinking Christians should have a quiet and peaceable life.

I would suggest to you that God is well-pleased with those who intercede on behalf of the unborn by giving attention to kings and those who are in power.

And salvation is a primary reason for instructing those who oppose themselves, because we know that no murderer has a place in the Kingdom of God.


1 Timothy 4 King James Version

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.


11 These things command and teach.



Note the word "specially." I have provided a link to make it clear that we labor and suffer reproach because we trust in God, who is especially the God of those that are already believing.

What that means is that we do not labor simply for the believing, as you and the OP suggest. I don't know about you but evangelism is a key element in my attempts to instruct those who have fallen into the snare of the devil, and I strongly suggest that those who advocate for murder are desperately ensnared.

So note "specially," this demands that we instruct unbelievers, which is, as most Christians know, our primary goal in and for the world that you guys are teaching we should avoid.


Continue...


Greetings,

It would seem you are of the "camp" of Kingdom Now doctrinal belief's, which is false teaching. The Lord shall rule over the nations during His Millennial reign. We are to testify of the Gospel being living witnesses of the Power of Salvation through the working of the Holy Spirit, which is only granted by the Lord gifting to those who do not believe.

We are not taught anywhere in the New Testament that the "Body of Christ" is too make laws for the unbeliever's to obey, it is obvious they will not and can not, that is why they will have laws to govern themselves as they choose, not what so-called Christians choose.
There is to be a TOTAL separation of Church and State.......nowhere does scripture support that "Christians" should do otherwise.

We serve The Lord and His Heavenly Kingdom, that is what the Lord taught, and what His Apostles taught, to teach other wise, is false teaching, and contributing to the One World Church......the Anti-Christ system.

So you are free to continue to serve your fleshly religious understanding of God's ways, but that false foundation shall not stand for it is built upon the "shifting sands", and that when the storm comes shall fall........I pray that will not happen to you and those who believe in your way of thought. For it represents NOT the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness.

In His Love.....
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Respectfully, it seems to me that you act as if life giving and life taking are "what-ifs" that we as men govern...
They aren't.

Actually, they are.

We can train up our children in the way of the Lord and when they are out in the world they can make a difference in the lives of those they come in contact with.

We can preach the Gospel and see men saved that they turn away from life-taking practices.

We can speak openly against the murder of unborn children and thereby instruct evil men concerning the sanctity of all life.

And we can take an active role in choosing those who are kings and in power. You might say we should just pray for them, but if you have been given the opportunity to make a difference about who is in power and you refuse to exercise that opportunity...

...it is just going to seem like burying talents to most Christians.

And I would point out, Dave, that I do not view the professing population of America to actually be Christians. They identify as Christians, but their fruit gives evidence otherwise. However, those are people that vote. Our voice concerning Abortion has an opportunity to impact those people for Christ.

Those who call themselves Christians yet advocate murder on demand need to hear from those who have a Biblical Perspective on the matter.

We very much have a role in whether men live or die. God has always used His people to keep men alive. First and foremost through the preaching of His will, and if we refuse to preach His will to people we are ourselves as guilty as those who have fallen into the snare of the Devil.


Continued...
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
As I see it, believers should stop worrying about what goes on in this world, and concern themselves with obeying the Lord...

And as we see it, by being concerned for the world we are obeying the Lord.

Who exactly do you think the Gospel is supposed to be preached to, Dave?


Continued...
 

CalTech

Active Member
Stick to the OP. If you want to discuss off-topic issues please PM.

I'll deal with your nonsense when I am finished with addressing Dave's posts.

Please stick around.


God bless.

Greetings,

I will block you from having any further discussion on this topic. Know your place, I will not allow you to trespass upon my OP, by your unholy, and ungodly manner's and attitude.
You will not be dealing with me whatsoever, I am instructed NOT to converse with anyone who is of your spirit.......Plain and simple!
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We have plenty on our plates without being concerned with who is going to win the next election, for example;

And what exactly is on your plate, Dave?

What are you doing to be obedient to the Lord?

I'm not trying to be a wise-guy, and this is not sarcasm, it is a sincere question. If you can tell me exactly how you are making an impact in the war that we are fighting then it will better inform myself and others what it is you think we should be doing.


Continued...
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Greetings,

I will block you from having any further discussion on this topic. Know your place, I will not allow you to trespass upon my OP, by your unholy, and ungodly manner's and attitude.
You will not be dealing with me whatsoever, I am instructed NOT to converse with anyone who is of your spirit.......Plain and simple!

As I said, stick around, I'll deal with you shortly.

I will deal with your doctrine and practice, you can believe that.

That is the point of Christian Doctrinal Discussion and Debate. If you want to try to flex censorious power, feel free. It just shows what kind of mindset you have. It falls more in line with a Liberal mindset that seeks to shut down opposition to what they seek to teach men.


God bless.
 

CalTech

Active Member
And what exactly is on your plate, Dave?

What are you doing to be obedient to the Lord?

I'm not trying to be a wise-guy, and this is not sarcasm, it is a sincere question. If you can tell me exactly how you are making an impact in the war that we are fighting then it will better inform myself and others what it is you think we should be doing.


Continued...
Greetings,

DaveG, is being obedient to the Lord by standing up for the Ways of the Lord. You are being a "wise" guy, and you are of a contentious spirit.....nothing you ask or say is in the spirit of sincerity.
Spiritual bullies like you, are not worthy to respond too.....

I have every "right" to stand in for this is my OP, and NOT yours......understood.

In His Love.....
 

CalTech

Active Member
As I said, stick around, I'll deal with you shortly.

I will deal with your doctrine and practice, you can believe that.

That is the point of Christian Doctrinal Discussion and Debate. If you want to try to flex censorious power, feel free. It just shows what kind of mindset you have. It falls more in line with a Liberal mindset that seeks to shut down opposition to what they seek to teach men.


God bless.

Blah.....blah......blah......the Lord rebuke you!
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Which the Lord determines anyway ( Daniel 2:21 ).

And he uses men in the preaching of the Gospel. We preach the Gospel and compare that to the doctrine and practice of kings and those in power.

The Republican Party has for years ran campaigns with a focus on a pro-life agenda, and that is our agenda.

Not to support it and to stand aside while murderers rule the land is unthinkable.

That is the primary reason I vote. Not because I think those going into office are Christians, but because my vote cancels out a vote for death.

This issue has caused a man like Donald Trump to profess he is a Christian. Seems to me that he thinks the Christian Voice matters. Whether he is or not, I don't know. He has a terrible track record. But he was publicly professing Christ. That's change in regard to kings and those in power and it came about because Christians made their beliefs known publicly through preaching and voting.

So to say voting has no impact simply isn't born out by the facts.


Continued...
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Blah.....blah......blah......the Lord rebuke you!

Gosh, got me with that. Guess I should just stop following the Lord's command and be obedient to men. Read the Scripture that has been presented to Dave. Address that.

Address the post, not the poster.


God bless.
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers in any agenda.

Voicing our views as Christians is not exactly being yoked to the world, Dave.

And as I mentioned before, that our voice goes alongside the voice of falsely professing Christians (even if that is the candidate, lol) and atheists, we don't stop voicing our doctrine and practice to the world because of that.

Do we stop preaching and teaching the Trinity because Catholics do so also?

Do we stop preaching and teaching marriage is between a man and a woman because atheists do so also?

Do we stop preaching and teaching life is sacred because the treehuggers do also?

Absolutely not.


Continued...
 
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