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Inherited sin nature is wrong.

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MB

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You said you die because you sin - if babies don't sin they wouldn't die, abortion would be impossible.
Your not talking physical. The spirit of a babe does not die. Neither does your spirit die. It lives on with Christ or in Hell and it's up to you and your love that determines this.
MB
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
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It says father it does not say Adam. This gives no reason to assume we all were in Adam's loins. It's like saying we have always existed in some form or another.
MB.
Its not me but the scripture that gives the example of some pre-existing in a progenitors "loins".

Just as Levi existed in Abraham we all existed in Adam, once we pass from death unto life we are "in Christ".
 

loDebar

Well-Known Member
Its not me but the scripture that gives the example of some pre-existing in a progenitors "loins".

Just as Levi existed in Abraham we all existed in Adam, once we pass from death unto life we are "in Christ".

It is showing the opposite, even though Aaron was of Abraham, Jesus was of another Priesthood not of he Law
Heb 7:11


If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
 

HankD

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It is showing the opposite, even though Aaron was of Abraham, Jesus was of another Priesthood not of he Law
Heb 7:11


If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
So what? The principle still stands for our adamic nature, we were "in Adam" when he sinned.
 

loDebar

Well-Known Member
So what? The principle still stands for our adamic nature, we were "in Adam" when he sinned.
I see your point, but Adam was already spiritually dead as a sinner. His sin affected us physically but we also were condemned sinners.

The verse I keep referring to says Jesus does not condemn flesh and blood, or man. and that we are condemned already shows our situation did not start with Adam.

Most powerful verses that makes question our understanding.
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Its not me but the scripture that gives the example of some pre-existing in a progenitors "loins".

Just as Levi existed in Abraham we all existed in Adam, once we pass from death unto life we are "in Christ".
You can believe what you like Hank but that does not mean I will ever believe we are born sinners. Our God is not an unjust God.
MB
 

loDebar

Well-Known Member
you were condemned before you were born, if Jesus does not judge man and yet we are condemned already.......

then I had to be condemned before I was a man. or had a body

according to what Jesus says......
 
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Yeshua1

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Because death is in the world. We all die because of it no one has immunity from death not even babies. If Adam had not sinned He would still be alive but he did sin and when he did he allowed death to enter the world.
MB
Babies are born as sinners....
 

Yeshua1

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You can believe what you like Hank but that does not mean I will ever believe we are born sinners. Our God is not an unjust God.
MB
Paul told us that God judged all lost in Adam, and all saved in Christ, correct?
 

HankD

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Confusion abounds.

No one will change their view. That is to be expected.
 

percho

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Great so how does one justify believing we are all guilty of Adam's sin at birth or at conception and still believe babies do not go to hell? How then are babies justified in your position?

Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

Adam condemned you and the babies also.

BTW You ain't going to save yourself, either. Neither will the babies. That is the work of God.
 

loDebar

Well-Known Member
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

Adam condemned you and the babies also.

BTW You ain't going to save yourself, either. Neither will the babies. That is the work of God.

nobody is saying a human will save themselves .

Adam was physical , Jesus is spiritual life
 

percho

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I've never been in Adam,. this is your claim. I do not agree with you Hank. I haven't died yet I may have been considered dead before I was saved but not literally and I was not there I didn't even exist.Scripture does not say I was there. Sure we all sin but your trying to make men sinners before they exist. Scripture does not agree with you.
MB.

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, ----- The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Would you agree that before Adam was created, very good BTW, the solution to what he was going to bring into the world and the result to what he would bring into the world, would cause, had already been foreordained?

What is man?

Why was he made a little lower than the angels? He was made a little lower than the angels for the same reason that the Son of Man, Jesus was made a little lower than the angels. Because of, the death. That thing, before the foundation of the world men would need to be redeemed from. Where was, the death, when Adam was created?

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

What are the works of the devil that the Son of God was manifested in the figure of Adam to destroy? Would that also destrou the devil himself > Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

What was God doing when he created man? What is man?
 

percho

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BTW

We are born that way.

Otherwise there would be no reason for:

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
 

percho

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nobody is saying a human will save themselves .

Adam was physical , Jesus is spiritual life

Then why are they worried about the babies? Or those born without mental capacity to know right from wrong?

Is knowing right from wrong a lot like having eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
 

loDebar

Well-Known Member
It is accountability, or knowing we need a savior

Humanity is the method where sinners are saved by sharing in the His death
 
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