Inherited sin nature is wrong.

[MB]

Frankly, you don't know me at all.
I claim no special knowledge.

Telling people they need training on how to interpret scripture
I don't think I.....especially "ALONE" have the correct means to understand Scripture.

Everyone who reads scripture get something different out of it. It was written to speak to men's hearts.

I am arguing that more educated men have helped me immensely, and if you had humility you could benefit from it too.

That is nonsense. The Bible is translated in simple English. The only thing educated man can do is what people do already read and study it for them selves. Educated men can only tell them to do that or mislead them, If a man want's truth the Bible is something we have to study for our selves with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It takes prayer sometimes to get understanding and all we have to do is ask. He leads me into all truth and scripture say's that He will. We don't need an educated men to do what God does Him Self.
Your view reminds me of Catholic preist telling men "of course my son I'll explain it to you." I know what Christ said to the Sadducee who were always warning Him. They were among the highest educated men of the time especially about the scriptures.

I don't think I'm "wise"....I think that I've been arguing that wiser men are helpful, and you are, and have been, arguing that you understand Scripture without the aid of people who have spent lifetimes mastering the craft.

I don't claim to know it all my friend. Yet I do know the Bible well enough to know that educated men can't benefit me at all as far as truth is concerned. If the scriptures were so complicated as you imply that no one could understand them ,only educated men would ever have Salvation. That my friend is false. Need I remind you that the pharisee's and Sadducee's missed the mark by miles this is what listening to educated men got them.

You are trying to reverse the argument.
I'm not stupid.

This doesn't fly.

You are arguing that you only need you and Jesus.
I'm saying you need to put effort into it and seek help from people who have spent decades mastering it professionally as a craft.

I don't think you are stupid I'm just convinced you are wrong about the advice of men about the scriptures. I think down deep you know I'm right.

I accept that help...
You think you can master it without effort.
Try again.
I'm not buying this trash, and no one else is either.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say I don't need help we all do at times we just do not need men for that help we need Christ alone. Try asking God for help you might just get a bog surprise.
MB

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Everyone who reads scripture get something different out of it.

They shouldn't.

It was written to speak to men's hearts.

No, it wasn't.
That is the kind of mind-boggling platitude only un-educated men assert.
It says BOTH everything and nothing all at the same time.
That is what makes it a meaningless assertion.

The Bible is translated in simple English.

Because highly educated men condescended to do that for you..
But, so also are Chemical Engineering manuals....and I don't understand them a lick because I don't have the requisite tools.

The only thing educated man can do is what people do already read and study it for them selves.

A statement only uneducated men make.
Also, one that jealous men who despise the gifts of others make.

He leads me into all truth and scripture say's that He will.

Yes, you already know everything, and educated men know nothing....
The dying protest of willing ignorance.

We don't need an educated men to do what God does Him Self.

God hasn't promised you to explain all the Scriptures in detail to you...
If you think he has...
you are more Biblically illiterate than I think you are.

I don't claim to know it all my friend.

You might as well for how unteachable you appear to be

Yet I do know the Bible well enough to know

No, you don't.

that educated men can't benefit me at all as far as truth is concerned.

You wouldn't even know that, because you haven't even bothered seriously studying and considering what they have to say...
You are literally unqualified to make this statement because you haven't even bothered studying them.

If the scriptures were so complicated as you imply

Some are, some aren't....
I already said that, maybe you should consult a more educated man to help you navigate my posts before you respond to them, because they would have already caught that and reminded you of it.

that no one could understand them ,only educated men would ever have Salvation.

I already agreed with you that a 10-year-old such as your granddaughter or my daughter could comprehend all the Cardinal doctrines of the faith such as Salvation...
I suggest you consult an educated man to read our correspondence before you post such inane statements.....you would save us both time.

I hope you aren't as uncomprehending with the Scriptures as you are with our correspondence.
If you are, no amount of prayer will get you out of it.

Need I remind you that the pharisee's and Sadducee's missed the mark by miles

Some did, and some didn't....
That's what being uneducated gets you.

this is what listening to educated men got them.

Educated men would know that Pharisees and Sadducees are :
1.) Not co-comperable
2.) Not always wrong.

Many Pharisees became followers of Christ, and a Pharisee gave Christ his tomb.
Perhaps you should have your Catholic Priests explain the Scriptures to you, as you seem ill-prepared to do it yourself.
He may bring you closer to truth than you seem to get on your own.
God used a former Pharisee to write 2/3rds of the New Testament, not because he was both illiterate and proud of it, but because he was educated and could argue a point.

I think down deep you know I'm right.

I think deep down there are two types of people I despise:
1.) The simultaneously poor and materially greedy (like Victor Hugo's Thenardiers)
2.) The ill-educated, ignorant know-it-all

A greedy rich man I can stomach
An educated know-it-all can be taught...

But a man both ignorant and intellectually arrogant is insufferable.
Deep down....that's what I really think.

 

[loDebar]

Adam had no sin nature, yet chose to sin anyway. Adam wasn’t individually judged for his sin, but all aspects of nature are now under the curse of death... God judged the earth, he judged plants, and he judged animals as well as a result of Adams sin despite the fact that the universe did not sin against God, only Adam sinned (and Eve, though she was deceived).

The concept of original sin as held by many is interesting in that if Adam were ever to be forgiven, it would lift the curse for all of creation, not just those who sinned.

I believe that is exactly why ALL people will be resurrected to face individual judgements.

Acts 24:15 (NASB)
having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.[/QUOTE
Jesus does not judge man. or after the flesh, Adam was not judged as a man.

 

[loDebar]

Adam being put out of the garden was Adam's punishment Having to till the ground that would resist Adam. It was a blessing for Adam to live in the garden. Everything was lush and yielding of fruit. Quite different when he was expelled. You said Adam didn't have a sin nature but your wrong if it wasn't his nature to sin he would not have sinned. The fact is Adam loved Eve more than God. He could not bare to loose her and is why he ate the fruit. Most likely he didn't think God would punish him. Yet God did punish him. Growing your own food is a lot harder than picking what was in the garden naturally.
MB

I said you did not inherit a sin nature from Adam because sin nature does not exist, It is bad side of free choice that is called sin nature

you make up stuff

 

[loDebar]

2Pe 1:20

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

[MB]

They shouldn't.

No, it wasn't.
That is the kind of mind-boggling platitude only un-educated men assert.
It says BOTH everything and nothing all at the same time.
That is what makes it a meaningless assertion.

Because highly educated men condescended to do that for you..
But, so also are Chemical Engineering manuals....and I don't understand them a lick because I don't have the requisite tools.

A statement only uneducated men make.
Also, one that jealous men who despise the gifts of others make.

Yes, you already know everything, and educated men know nothing....
The dying protest of willing ignorance.

God hasn't promised you to explain all the Scriptures in detail to you...
If you think he has...
you are more Biblically illiterate than I think you are.

You might as well for how unteachable you appear to be

No, you don't.

You wouldn't even know that, because you haven't even bothered seriously studying and considering what they have to say...
You are literally unqualified to make this statement because you haven't even bothered studying them.

Some are, some aren't....
I already said that, maybe you should consult a more educated man to help you navigate my posts before you respond to them, because they would have already caught that and reminded you of it.

I already agreed with you that a 10-year-old such as your granddaughter or my daughter could comprehend all the Cardinal doctrines of the faith such as Salvation...
I suggest you consult an educated man to read our correspondence before you post such inane statements.....you would save us both time.

I hope you aren't as uncomprehending with the Scriptures as you are with our correspondence.
If you are, no amount of prayer will get you out of it.

Some did, and some didn't....
That's what being uneducated gets you.

Educated men would know that Pharisees and Sadducees are :
1.) Not co-comperable
2.) Not always wrong.

Many Pharisees became followers of Christ, and a Pharisee gave Christ his tomb.
Perhaps you should have your Catholic Priests explain the Scriptures to you, as you seem ill-prepared to do it yourself.
He may bring you closer to truth than you seem to get on your own.
God used a former Pharisee to write 2/3rds of the New Testament, not because he was both illiterate and proud of it, but because he was educated and could argue a point.

I think deep down there are two types of people I despise:
1.) The simultaneously poor and materially greedy (like Victor Hugo's Thenardiers)
2.) The ill-educated, ignorant know-it-all

A greedy rich man I can stomach
An educated know-it-all can be taught...

But a man both ignorant and intellectually arrogant is insufferable.
Deep down....that's what I really think.

What an ego you can dish it out but you take it. Now you know how you make men feel when you pretend you know everything because some guy told you so. and you are still wrong.
MB

 

[HeirofSalvation]

What an ego you can dish it out but you take it.

I can take "it" just fine...
I find our correspondence mildly entertaining, nothing else.

Now you know how you make men feel when you pretend you know everything

Except, I don't..
I am the one arguing for the need for more educated men to help us understand the harder passages to understand.
I am not claiming to be that guy.
Instead, I am the one who claims to benefit greatly from the work of others.
Only you claim to not need help.
Even Peter said that some of Paul's words were hard to understand.
I suppose you haven't read that passage of Scripture...
Or, didn't understand it when you did.

because some guy told you so. and you are still wrong.

You are not coming out ahead in this exchange.
Take an un-educated man's advice:
Quit while you are behind.

 

[Gup20]

Jesus does not judge man. Or after the flesh. Adam was not judged as a man.

John 5:21-23 (NASB) 21 "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 5:25-29 (NASB) 25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

 

[blacksheep]

Everyone who reads scripture get something different out of it. It was written to speak to men's hearts.

That is nonsense. The Bible is translated in simple English. The only thing educated man can do is what people do already read and study it for them selves. Educated men can only tell them to do that or mislead them, If a man want's truth the Bible is something we have to study for our selves with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It takes prayer sometimes to get understanding and all we have to do is ask. He leads me into all truth and scripture say's that He will. We don't need an educated men to do what God does Him Self.
Your view reminds me of Catholic preist telling men "of course my son I'll explain it to you." I know what Christ said to the Sadducee who were always warning Him. They were among the highest educated men of the time especially about the scriptures.

I don't claim to know it all my friend. Yet I do know the Bible well enough to know that educated men can't benefit me at all as far as truth is concerned. If the scriptures were so complicated as you imply that no one could understand them ,only educated men would ever have Salvation. That my friend is false. Need I remind you that the pharisee's and Sadducee's missed the mark by miles this is what listening to educated men got them.

I don't think you are stupid I'm just convinced you are wrong about the advice of men about the scriptures. I think down deep you know I'm right.

I accept that help...
You think you can master it without effort.
Try again.
I'm not buying this trash, and no one else is either.
I didn't say I don't need help we all do at times we just do not need men for that help we need Christ alone. Try asking God for help you might just get a bog surprise.
MB

Blacksheep says,..
"The greatest Impediment Christians have obtaining truth is when they think they already have it."

Solomon said,...
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

Whenever I hear people say things like you have about praying and the Holy Spirit leading you in all truth, that means that those who you disagree with you who also pray and have the Holy Spirit don't have the truth and are not led by the Holy Spirit.

You never mentioned hermeneutics in your reply to HeirofSalvation. You said it was nonsense that more educated men have helped him immenslely. I think he's right. He said, "If you had humility you could benefit from it too."

Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

I benefit from people smarter than me on a daily basis. I also adhere to a strick hermeneutic if you know what that is. The Holy Spirit and praying for guidance to acquiring truth is honorable, but that's not all there is to it. We have to put much time and effort into it. We have to have an unbiased approach to the scriptures NOT thinking we already have things figured out or that we already have the truth.

and my favorite, bold and underline is mine...

I didn't say I don't need help we all do at times we just do not need men for that help we need Christ alone. Try asking God for help you might just get a bog surprise.

To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding.

To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;

Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.

Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.

 

[loDebar]

John 5:21-23 (NASB) 21 "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 5:25-29 (NASB) 25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

they wont be flesh Jesus doesn't judge man as man but as spirit or soul. That is why the condemnation of Adam occurred pre body

 

[Gup20]

they wont be flesh Jesus doesn't judge man as man but as spirit or soul. That is why the condemnation of Adam occurred pre body

I honestly have no idea what you mean “pre-body.” It would be odd for a spirit to eat fruit from a tree, or have a rib removed for a woman to be made.

Genesis 3:19 (NASB) By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."

It sounds like sin & the judgement happened after Adam was formed of the dust.

 

[loDebar]

it is simple, 'If, as I contend, Jesus said He does not condemn man., "I judge no man" and all judgement is given to the Son

Then Adam or any man could not be condemned as a flesh, , yet are are condemned, so how can this be except we consider the man is body and soul. We both agree the soul lives eternally , or outside of time in Heaven, Since the soul or spiritual part of us can sin and the flesh cannot. This must be the part of us that is judged or condemned without our body being included

Adam , as all of us were condemned as spiritual beings

This might be evidence.
Heb 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

 

[MB]

[

Blacksheep says,..
"The greatest Impediment Christians have obtaining truth is when they think they already have it."

A description of your self no doubt!

Solomon said,...

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

Something I agree with. Yet Calvinism is an implied theology.

Whenever I hear people say things like you have about praying and the Holy Spirit leading you in all truth, that means that those who you disagree with you who also pray and have the Holy Spirit don't have the truth and are not led by the Holy Spirit.

Not everyone is lead by the Holy Spirit. Only those who have the Spirit are lead by the Spirit. If they aren't being Lead by the Spirit then they may not have Him dwelling inside of them. Those who follow blind men fall in to ditches. They're many who are easily lead astray buy educated men.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

You never mentioned hermeneutics in your reply to HeirofSalvation. You said it was nonsense that more educated men have helped him immenslely. I think he's right. He said, "If you had humility you could benefit from it too."

I'm not a Calvinist that I need the writings of men. I do not rely on the teachings of men like Calvin or Augustine or any of the modern day Calvinist Calvinism is just another form of Catholicism and is not biblical it's false. This is why they need men to teach it to them

Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

I see no submission from you.

I benefit from people smarter than me on a daily basis. I also adhere to a strick hermeneutic if you know what that is. The Holy Spirit and praying for guidance to acquiring truth is honorable, but that's not all there is to it. We have to put much time and effort into it. We have to have an unbiased approach to the scriptures NOT thinking we already have things figured out or that we already have the truth.

This is the difference between you and I. I lean of Jesus I depend on Him for everything. You depend on men. I can see why your a Calvinist.



To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding.

To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;

Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.

Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.[/QUOTE]

I do but my sources are higher than your men.

I can take "it" just fine...
I find our correspondence mildly entertaining, nothing else.

Except, I don't..
I am the one arguing for the need for more educated men to help us understand the harder passages to understand.
I am not claiming to be that guy.
Instead, I am the one who claims to benefit greatly from the work of others.
Only you claim to not need help.
Even Peter said that some of Paul's words were hard to understand.
I suppose you haven't read that passage of Scripture...
Or, didn't understand it when you did.

You are not coming out ahead in this exchange.
Take an un-educated man's advice:
Quit while you are behind.

LOL Maybe you think this is a race!
MB

 

[MB]

They shouldn't.

No, it wasn't.

So your saying the Bible wasn't written to speak to men's hearts. hmmmmm

That is the kind of mind-boggling platitude only un-educated men assert.
It says BOTH everything and nothing all at the same time.
That is what makes it a meaningless assertion.

Everything is meaningless to men with hearts of stone.

Because highly educated men condescended to do that for you..
But, so also are Chemical Engineering manuals....and I don't understand them a lick because I don't have the requisite tools.

Are you saying I need to be a chemist to understand those wonderful men of higher education.
I've got it made I've worked with Chemicals most of my life. I worked for Geographical seismograph company for more 40 years imagine that!

A statement only uneducated men make.
Also, one that jealous men who despise the gifts of others make.

Wrong what I despise is someone who thinks all answers come from men and refuse to depend on God for everything Then tell who do depend on God they need some guy to explain it to them. You know like Catholic priest.

Yes, you already know everything, and educated men know nothing....
The dying protest of willing ignorance.

You are full of insults aren't you? I've never claimed I know everything but one thing for sure I'm not asking for your approval What you think of me doesn't means squat.

God hasn't promised you to explain all the Scriptures in detail to you...
If you think he has...
you are more Biblically illiterate than I think you are.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Oh I forgot you don't believe God answers questions well enough for you.

You might as well for how unteachable you appear to be

How nice of you to offer your opinion in your ignorance.

No, you don't.

Well of course you don't because you do not depend on God.

You wouldn't even know that, because you haven't even bothered seriously studying and considering what they have to say...
You are literally unqualified to make this statement because you haven't even bothered studying them.

Yes I heeded the Bible's warnings about being aware of wolves in sheep clothing

Some are, some aren't....
I already said that, maybe you should consult a more educated man to help you navigate my posts before you respond to them, because they would have already caught that and reminded you of it.

I already agreed with you that a 10-year-old such as your granddaughter or my daughter could comprehend all the Cardinal doctrines of the faith such as Salvation...

Cardinal? I knew it you're Catholic This is why you think you're heirofsalvation. You just made me laugh so hard I liked to fell of my chair
You obviously don't remember me but I remember you from another forum. You are funny and out of place.
MB

 

[Gup20]

it is simple, 'If, as I contend, Jesus said He does not condemn man., "I judge no man" and all judgement is given to the Son

Then Adam or any man could not be condemned as a flesh, , yet are are condemned, so how can this be except we consider the man is body and soul. We both agree the soul lives eternally , or outside of time in Heaven, Since the soul or spiritual part of us can sin and the flesh cannot. This must be the part of us that is judged or condemned without our body being included

Adam , as all of us were condemned as spiritual beings

This might be evidence.
Heb 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Romans 8:3-4 (NASB) 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 8:10 (NASB) If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

I think you have it backwards. God banished sin from our spirit to our flesh so that our spirit is alive & righteous, but our body is sin-filled & condemned.

1 Corinthians 15:42-47 (NASB) 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 1:45 AM Pacific.

 

[blacksheep]

[

A description of your self no doubt!

Something I agree with. Yet Calvinism is an implied theology.

Not everyone is lead by the Holy Spirit. Only those who have the Spirit are lead by the Spirit. If they aren't being Lead by the Spirit then they may not have Him dwelling inside of them. Those who follow blind men fall in to ditches. They're many who are easily lead astray buy educated men.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


I'm not a Calvinist that I need the writings of men. I do not rely on the teachings of men like Calvin or Augustine or any of the modern day Calvinist Calvinism is just another form of Catholicism and is not biblical it's false. This is why they need men to teach it to them

I see no submission from you.

This is the difference between you and I. I lean of Jesus I depend on Him for everything. You depend on men. I can see why your a Calvinist.



To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding.

To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;

Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.

Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.

No I'm not a Calvinist.

It's common for the typical Christian like yourself to claim superior knowledge and understanding because of your divine connection to the Holy Spirit. I can tell you're having trouble coping with the fact you can learn from others. You need to humble yourself.

"From error to error we discover truth."

 

[blacksheep]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 1:45 AM Pacific.

Can't say I blame you there.

 

[Iconoclast]

Sigh.....if we are all guilty of Adam's sin as if we were there and did it then it would also require that all persons were immediately made right through Christ's obedience.

Another wrong conclusion.....failing to understand romans 5:12-21, or the fall itself.

 

[Iconoclast]

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

yes all sinned...at one point in time...the fall