Introducing Christian Doctrine by Millard Erickson (Part 2)

I completely agree with you Allan. Well stated.
The only thing I would emphasize is the fact that those who were healed, were those whom God determined would be. As Allan pointed out, there were many standing there that were not healed. Many who were healed were not seeking it. It was a sovereign act of God.
IMHO, it is the same with regeneration. God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, performes this miracle according to His sovereign will. See, we can get some Calvinism out of miracles can't we? :godisgood:

 

The answer to this question I bolded will be answered in reverse. God did control the circumstances to where a miracle WAS needed in the case of a blind man. Remember when the people around asked whose sin caused the man to be blind. Jesus told them this this was not due to any sin, but so that God could get glory out of his being healed. That sounds like a miracle and providence doesn't it?

 

In his Christian Theologh, 2nd ed. (CTse), Erickson lists the three major views about miracles:

1. Miracles are actually the manifestations of little known or virtually unknown natural laws.

2. Miracles break the laws of nature.

3. Miracles are supernatural forces that counter nature forces. (pp. 432-33).

Erickson further lists three purposes of miracles:

1. The most important is to glorify God.

2. To establish the supernatural basis of revelation.

3. To meet human needs. (p. 434).

Erickson believes in miracles for today. This is what he says, "When miracles occur today, we should credit God." (p. 434)

Personally, I consider miracles as being first laws and our life of existence is based on second laws. With this view, miracles, when they occur, they are not antinatural but only supernatural interventions, because they are first laws.

Remember, God spoke this universe into existence--now that's first law.

 

I love this verse: "This sickness is not to end in death, but for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified by it" (John 11:4, NASB).

 

First I agree with your first section and secondly I also agree with the order presented in second section. (imagine that ) I didn't set any specific order forth in my post because I was just getting my thoughts down since I was at work and didn't have any of my materials with me. Good post.

Here is another perspective, though the same as what has already been set forth and agreed upon in this thread it has a small distinction. The distinction is that of 'wonder' (ex. It's a miracle!) This is J.I. Packers "Concise Theology: A guide to Historic Christian beliefs", subsection "God as revealed as Creator":

I think I am following what you are saying here, but I'm also not so sure I am. Please elaborate a little if you wouldn't mind.

 

This is a good quote from Packer:

Allan,
1. It's good when we can agree every now and then. :thumbs:

2. Packer is correct. A failure to believe in biblical miracles and more so the the ability of God is unreasonable.

3. It is from the first laws that everything else came into being. The first laws are still there at God's disposal, so when He sees fit, He can so discharge.

4. Consider the raising of the dead: first law gave life, and so when death occurs, if God so desires, He can return that life to the individual.

 

I apologize beforehand for rb's attack on me on this thread. As a practical demonstration of the topic, I would consider a miracle to have happened right before our eyes if he could see his error so I will reply.

1) I said "maybe." 2) I did not assume that you represented "most Calvinists."

The "qualifications" being what? That I fell into the "trap" and got out as you seem to think you did with free will? I can guarantee that you did NOT follow the Spirit out of free will. Calvinism "walks" people right past the Altar of justification into the holy place to, like tourists, see the "pretty" lamps and shewbread and incense of sanctification. Oh, they believe in the Sacrifice, alright -- they just didn't "bring it" in repentance BEFORE they began looking at and using the instruments of sanctification.

Sad, isn't it. :tear: Somehow you joined an even more "elite" group in the church that has it all figured out "systematically." And somehow you lost the Foundation of your faith. It's JESUS, not election. You lost your clear perspective of God's love. The simple meaning of John 3:16 is even perverted to you now -- "For God so loved the world..." No. God showed His love to all the world through the giving of His son so that a specific, particular people could receive eternal life through faith in Him. (This is your "brother" James White's latest interpretation. May God have mercy on his soul!)

Yeah, that's exactly what White said he did with John 3:16, rb! And he promises he didn't bring any preconceptions into the interpretation either. He, and perhaps you, have been COMPLETELY deluded, friend.

skypair

 

Good point

 

This is from a short paper I did on Theodicy a few years ago.

How can God, who is Almighty, allow evil to exist? This has been a question that has been asked for thousands of years. I think first we need to look at the definition of theodicy. The term theodicy comes from the Greek θεός (theós, "god") and δίκη (díkē, "justice"), meaning literally "the justice of God". The purpose of theodicy is to show that evil in the world does not conflict with the goodness of God, that, indeed, notwithstanding its many evils, the world is the best of all possible worlds. Many would deny that God exists because of the problem of evil. Some would say that if God exists, He must not be perfectly good.
The Bible says that God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omni benevolent. If God is all powerful and all knowing, and if He is perfectly good, how can He allow evil? Isaiah 45:7 says that; The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these. Some translations like the King James version Bible says; I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
We have to ask ourselves if evil is actually evil. God says that He will cause all things to work together for the good for those who love Him, those who are called according to His purpose. If God causes all things to work together for the good of those who love Him, is evil really evil?
He can make evil work out for the good. Genesis 50:20 "As for you, you meant evil against me, {but} God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.
Deuteronomy 8:2-3
2 "You shall remember all the way which the LORD your God has led you in the wilderness these forty years, that He might humble you, testing you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.
3 "He humbled you and let you be hungry, and fed you with manna which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you understand that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD.
Zechariah 13:9 "And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' And they will say, 'The LORD is my God.' "
With these and many more verses of Scripture we see that God does cause evil to work for the good of those He loves. We have to look past the immediate circumstance to see the final outcome.
God is almighty. When God made man, He was pleased to give man the ability to choose. In order for man to have a choice there had to be a possibility for evil. The possibility of evil had to exist for man to be able to be free moral agents. An example is this; God made all the material available for my truck to exist. God did not manufacture my truck. Men manufactured my truck. My truck exists because men took the material God provided, and manufactured my truck. Sin exists because men took the possibility of evil, and manufactured that which is against God’s nature.
We have to look at the two possibilities for evil. Evil can be in the form of calamity or in the form of sin. God creates calamity in His righteous judgment. God can not sin. It is always man who manufactures sin. As free moral agents we have the choice to do that which is against God’s nature or to conform to God’s nature. Unregenerate men will always do that which is against God’s nature.
We have to take into account whether what we perceive as evil is really evil. The Bible says that we will experience pain and difficulty in life after the fall. The Bible says that we are molded and perfected by our trials and tribulations. What men think is evil may actually be making us better as human beings. Just as plants need the wind and storms to become stronger, we need the storms in our lives to become stronger. God sometimes puts storms in our lives for our own protection. If we had all we ever needed and everything we always wanted, without any pain or trial, we would forget our need of God. I think that God in His infinite knowledge gives us everything we need, including what we perceive as evil, to bring us into the beings that He planned us to be. Just as Christ experienced pain and difficulty, we also being made into His image will experience pain and difficulty. It is through those difficult and painful experiences that we will begin to be make like Jesus. It is a privilege to experience what He experienced. Without evil, we would not know the goodness and perfect Holiness of God. God is going to use evil to bring us to Himself. For much of mankind, without evil, they would never turn to God. It is when we are in desperation and at the bottom of our own ability, we turn to God. Just as a child who seeks his father when the things of the world are too much for him to bear, we seek our Heavenly Father, when the things of this world are too much for us to handle on our own. Satan is one of God’s hardest working angels. What was meant for evil God turns into good. God is sovereign and perfectly good. The evil in the world is part of God’s design to make us into what He has already planned for us to be.

 

Nope, and there is still two more. This is the only pic I had at present on the comp.

This picture is about 3 years old.

 

This problem was first framed by the Greek philosopher of the 5th cen. BC, Pythagoras of Samos.

The problem with those who stumble over the existence of evil is their starting point. They begin with man, rather than God.

If we begin with the God of the Bible, then we'd be able to put the world around us into proper perspective, though not perfectly.

 

Of course you can. I used some info from I think Wikipedia...... and mostly of course, the Bible.

 

TC,

Excellent, Excellent! point. This just goes to prove this: If you ask the wrong questions, you inevitably get the wrong answers.

Rabbi Kushner asked "Why do bad things happen to good people?" Considering the circumstances that led him to ask that question, I certainly understand why he'd ask that question. But, he did ask the wrong question.

The proper question is "Why do good things happen to bad people?"

A man-centered theology (which is a contradiction in terms, by the way) requires man to be foremost in our hearts and affections. In this wrong theology, everything is seen from man's perspective (as if man, not God, were the main actor in the universe).

A God-centered theology begins with God and then adjudicates man in light of who God is. When we see God for who He really is, we cannot help but see ourselves as we really are--persons of unclean lips who dwell in the midst of unclean people. (And that, by the way, doesn't, or at least shouldn't, change if you subscribe to reformed theology or not).

Anyway...I enjoyed your comments very much.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Archangel,

Thanks for the compliments, and I do enjoy your comments too.
1. Asking the wrong questions I believe is the biggest problem in doing theology.

2. I read a book by Rabbi Kushner on God and as a good Jewish Rabbi as he is, he never mentions Jesus---I would not recommend the book.

3. Well, I usually tell my church to ask instead: What is God's purpose for allowing bad things to happen?

4. That's the problem with most of Western theology, and now we have to deal with postmodernism and the resultant church, The Emergent church--it's all man-centered.

5. Right on! :thumbs: