Is 1 John 2:2 Really a defence of Universal Atonement?

Are you advocating works now? Or are you admitting that a man can believe which would be doing truth.

Who did the believing? I think God already knows who He is.

No, just those who believe.

Are you saying no Jews or Greeks are saved or believers are they all lost, is that what you are saying?

 

Hello Bob,

I fail to see where this has anything to do with the atonement. Maybe I'm over looking it.
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Your all verses.........

This is the same old arguement of the Methodist given 1st by John Wesley..."The all verses where ALL means ALL...and nothing else. We need only look at the Bible to show the error.

In the Bible "all" often does not mean all universally. In other words, all does not always mean all.

Now that will preach..

There are examples also with the word "world."

Since the Bible often reduces or limits universal terms, Calvinists are not changing words in the Bible when we reduce these terms in certain freewiller.. so called "proof texts". We just use the biblical data for particular redemption, and only apply the biblical principle of allowing Bible to interpret The Bible when we limit these terms.

Now lets see if, freewillers also reduce universal terms.

I doubt it.


Calvinists understand 1 Tm. 2.4 to mean all kinds of people.

In 1 Tm. 2.4 and 6 "all" is used as in... all kinds of people, Jew, Greek, barbarian, women, etc. It cannot mean every person whoever lived. The context of the passage will not support this view. Surely Paul is not saying that Christians should pray for every person, but for all kinds of, all classes of people. I have a idea...lets ask a non Calvinist...Shank

Shank, in case some do not know, is a staunch Arminian writer....

http://crisispub.com/life_in_the_son_by_robert_shank.htm

Robert Shank..Elect in the Son

In Christ...James

 

Now, you getting it.

Well now, I see you not been into a God from everlasting to everlasting, a God who foreknows all things, A God who is all in all.

Why do you think He calls them
1. Because He sees them believe!!
2. Everything hinges on belief.

 

James; Here is where it means ALL, WORLD etc

He died for all but we must believe to receive that blood applied to our soul and wash away our sins
1 Timothy,
chapter5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6: Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
7: Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
8: I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting
2Cr 5:15 And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

 

Bob,

Is the main goal of God to save ALL of mankind?

 

Depends on if you believe the Bible or not;

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

ok...so let me ask again....

Based on how you see the Bible, is the goal of God to save all mankind?

 

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

It was His will James; If God wanted to He could of made man where all would be saved but God made man subject to vanity. That was God's goal, now God's Will was that all would believe but being God in His Sovereignity made man subject to vanity, man went astray.

God's goal was to make man subject to vanity and that is exactly what He did.

If it was His goal to save man, He would, but its His Will that they all believe.

His goal is to provide a way where all can be saved, that He also did.

God pulls no man, including Calvinist by the hair of the head to Salvation.

 

I see the Bible how it was written. It's all I have to go by when understanding my God. He sent his son to die for the sin's of the World (Jn 3:16). I take this act of giving at face value.