Is 1 John 2:2 Really a defence of Universal Atonement?

This is a false statement!!!

 

Is the goal of God to save all mankind? I can't tell if you are saying yes...or no

 

Sadly James; All did not believe.

 

His Will is that all be saved.

His did not set out to make it His goal for He gave man a choice in the matter. If it were His goal then all would be saved. God can do anything He wants and He did do what He wanted by making man subject to vanity.

Tell me something James; Do you draw flies or what. First there was Dale and now you got another just like him.

 

God never hated His creation until they did evil. You got that!

 

That is right...

However these verses are talking about the Christ Life that He gave.

This is all about the WORK OF CHRIST on the cross.

It is not about who believes.

This is His death...right? Who did Christ die for?

For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many

So....did Christ give his life for ALL or many?

 

First, "World" means the whole world where contexts dictates, just like "All".
And I used a portion of Spurgeons sermon stating if it says what it says, then it is what it is. I admit I probably used to broad a statement and should have narrowed it. Now let us see again what one of those rarely's are:

1 Tim 2:3-6

Pertaining to my posting of #144

Spurgeon did not HOLD to the doctrince that Christ died for All - However He WOULD NOT try to rephase or redefine the words of scripture where it was explict what those words ment. So he said these "ALL's" in 1 Timothy mean just what they say. He goes on to say in his sermon: "I never thought it to be any very great crime to seem to be inconsistent with myself; for who am I that I should everlastingly be consistent? But I do think it a great crime to be so inconsistent with the word of God...

I agree Christ has redeemed some of all sorts.
Redeemed - (dictionary) To save from a state of sinfulness and its consequences.

But He atoned for All that whosoever would beleive, may be saved (redeemed).

 

Hello there brother Jauthor,
At it again I see... :laugh:

Let us start with Matthew 20: 28 and deal with the context rather than just a portion of the scripture.

Just prior to these words was the altercation of those who would be greatest in thy Kingdom. (KEY: IN THY KINGDOM) So we see this is in regard to future tense. Then Jesus says if one will be great he must be the others servant. (Another KEY: Who is Jesus speaking to. Disciples/saved- well almost :thumbs: )
And then Jesus says this is what His purpose is and to give His life as ransom for many. To stay consistant with the dialog Christ was simply stating what they will have to do to be considered Great in the future Kingdom - where Many were ransomed. Those the atonement was applied to, since it is the atoning blood that was the ransom.

Now let us deal with Mark 10:45 - Oh wait, we did :thumbs:

 

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Hello Allan,

Yes i seem to have this habit of believeing the Bible.

Lets try again on this one Allan...

I thought in the future Kingdom ALL within the Kingdom were ransom. Are you now saying some that go into the future Kingdom will not be ransomed? Just how do they get there?

Allan, do me a big favor and tell us what the word ransom means. (lutron)

Also the worded applied. You use this word a lot. Just what did Christ work on the cross do? Did it pay for sins THEN or later?

 

I couldn't get back on last night so I couldn't answer you James so I saved it and posted it this morning.

Yes, and I told you before that the atonement was made for all and presented unto the Father but we must believe in order to

receive that atonement and make it complete.

So you can see "ransom for all" and also "ransom for many". You can see that can't you James:?

So the ransom for all is "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that Whosoever believeth on should not

perish, but have eternal life".

The ransom for many is After you have heard the word of truth the Gospel of your Salvation, and after you have BELIEVED,

then are you sealed with the Spirit of the Holy Promise. The many is a number that no man can number James but they did

something "special", they BELIEVED.

 

Hey, dont stop reading with that verse but continue on the next few verses for clarification where it clearly says that 'he that believeth not is condemned already'. Those who do not respond to the word are either not elect or they are elect and will be brought to faith in Christ at a later time, determined only by God, or, of course they may not be of the elect at all and totally reject Him, choosing their own damnation!
Why preach to every creature?
1) Because we are commanded to do so.
2) Because no one but God knows who the elect are and when we preach to all inclusively we are preaching to elect and non elect, being used by God to reach His chosen ones! What could be better? We are the means God uses to reach those He brings to faith in Himself!

 

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Don't we all start out "condemned already"? You were not saved before you believed, right?

 

This supposed to be a secret that the unbeliever is condemned?

 

Believeing must happen...indeed. But I think you fail to see my point. Believeing is aside from Christ work on the cross. What you are saying is Christ work was done on the cross....and then we must believe in order for it to be applied.

Notice the part in red above is apart from the work of Christ in the cross.

The part in blue is what the text is talking about. Christ GAVE his life. This is apart from the believeing. Now lets look at the verse again..

For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many

When Christ gave his life..was it for all or many?