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Is 1 John 2:2 Really a defence of Universal Atonement?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by jne1611, Sep 25, 2006.

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  1. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    :)

    ok...

    If Gods goal was to save all of mankind...

    and..

    If God foreknow Cain would not believe and would go to hell...

    Why did not God redeem Man before Cain was born?

    Last year 56,589,034 died!!!

    If half of them are not saved...half of them are going to hell.

    This comes out to....28,294,517 going to hell each year based only on 50%. Most would say this is higher.

    Each day that Christ does not come back, 155,000 die...half of which will go to hell...based on 50%.

    If Christ goal was to save all mankind, he could have saved Adam and Eve and that would have been it. Now..Billions are lost forever more.

    God KNEW Cain would not become a believe....yet he did not save ALL of mankind.


    Did not God love YOU Bob and wait for you to be born to save you...even though billions died and went to hell as he waited till the time you were born?


    Or was God just powerless and could not save before Cain was born...even though this was His main goal?
     
    #241 Jarthur001, Sep 28, 2006
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  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I'm finding it's not only the RCC that teaches this from the Kingdom exclusion threads. :tear:
     
    #242 webdog, Sep 28, 2006
  3. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    I will add.....

    And still today He waits, for there are others He wants to bring to heaven to be with Him. Maybe they have not been born yet. When the last elect is saved...it is over. yet...each day others go to hell.

    We can do the same thing to freewill.

    Did God want all man saved?

    or..

    Did God want all men to have freewill?


    You cannot have both, for at some point they overlap
     
    #243 Jarthur001, Sep 28, 2006
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  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    James, you have even greater problems. You love to throw out the "God is powerless" strawman, but your view logically creates God as the monsterous author of sin that He uses to wipe His hands clean of creating man for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.
     
    #244 webdog, Sep 28, 2006
  5. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    This story was not based on my views, but rather 2 pages of asking the views of freewillers. What point would you like to change to make it better?

    now...I would be glad to share my views...but you have heard them so much, you could say them back to me. :)


    crush goes the strawman
     
    #245 Jarthur001, Sep 28, 2006
  6. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    Well there you have it. Now your saying God hates even before He throws them to the fire. Pretty soon you'll make it to eternity & believe the truth about the matter.:smilewinkgrin:
     
    #246 jne1611, Sep 28, 2006
  7. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    #247 jne1611, Sep 28, 2006
  8. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    Allan. Atonement means reconciliation. Christ only reconciled to God those who God gave to him.
     
    #248 jne1611, Sep 28, 2006
  9. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    Amen Bro.!
     
    #249 jne1611, Sep 28, 2006
  10. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    True, but the elect will be the only ones brought to faith by God right?
     
    #250 jne1611, Sep 28, 2006
  11. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    The big question is are they in His will to happen? If not, has he been overthrown?
     
    #251 jne1611, Sep 28, 2006
  12. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    Well there you have it your almost there. If He always knew they would not believe & as you say He hated His creation after they sinned. Then He always hated them. He prepared hell for them. How much more proof do you need to see how God feels about them?
     
    #252 jne1611, Sep 28, 2006
  13. Blammo

    Blammo New Member

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    I think I understand your question...

    I would say no to both. Though I believe it is obvious God is willing to allow these things to happen, He in no way willed it to happen. Does that make any sense? I think it does. Nobody can do anything that God does not allow. But God allows people to do things that are against His will.
     
    #253 Blammo, Sep 28, 2006
  14. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    How many times do you need scripture read to you before you grasp it? If its not His will they perish then it certainly is not His will they sin!!! Jeepers. HE WILL WIN IN THE END!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Close, only counts in "horseshoes", this is much more serious.
    God so loved the world.
    How many times do you need scripture read to you before you grasp it. :)

    1 John, chapter 2
    1: My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
    2: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
     
    #254 Brother Bob, Sep 28, 2006
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  15. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    Scripture taken out of context is a lot different than establishing a doctrinal view based on the whole body of Scripture. Something that by now I am sure you know nothing of. So you actually think that God did not will in any way the destruction of the wicked? That's funny seeing that it is He that sends them the strong delusion that they might be damned.
     
    #255 jne1611, Sep 28, 2006
  16. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    I see your point. I believe that Scripture teaches that it is God's will in a certain way ( I'll admit that it still is a mystery to me) to permit sin & allow Satanic deception. To me the fact that He permits it says that He wills it. For if He did not will it to be, it could never have come into existence. Don't get me wrong, I do not believe that God likes sin, He hates it! But it fits into His purposes just like everything else He has ever willed to be.
     
    #256 jne1611, Sep 28, 2006
  17. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    You blew it on #1.

    I said it was God's will that not any perish.

    I never said it was His goal.

    You are putting in your own words now.

    I said if it was His goal that He could do anything He wanted.

    So, it makes the rest mute when you missed the first one.

    Are you as mortal man beginning to question God on His creation. I think we better leave that part up to Him. Even if you

    don't you have to.

    I told you God loved all, because He knew what man would do does not mean He caused it.

    You of course know that Jesus stood as a slain Lamb before the foundation of the world don't you?

    Don't that tell you God knew some men were not going to believe.

    If God is all in all, would you question He knows who will believe and who will not being He is outside of time He sees

    today who will choose him and repent and be added to the church. Now that is great isn't it?

    James, you need to quit trying to bring God down on the Calvinist level.
     
    #257 Brother Bob, Sep 28, 2006
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  18. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    So He does not want them to perish, but He is not going to keep it from happening? He loves them, but He knows He is going to cast them to the fire? He created them knowing that He would cast them to eternal fire? Is that your idea of love? If so, no wander you find your self modifying your stance on this issue constantly. It is so much easier to believe the whole truth. Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. He says this as though he knows that someone will say "all things" That sounds Calvinistic! Surely he doesn't mean the lost as well! Not God!
     
    #258 jne1611, Sep 28, 2006
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  19. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    You are so far off its not funny. It is the wicked he will send strong delusions. jeepers :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:
     
    #259 Brother Bob, Sep 28, 2006
  20. jne1611

    jne1611 Member

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    And your point being? No point at all as can be expected.
     
    #260 jne1611, Sep 28, 2006
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