Is Abortion Murder?

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by post-it:

Abortion is preventing life from occuring, that I know for a fact. Is that murder? NO! This means I believe that life starts but can be ended without that being wrong. But at 5-6 months then it is wrong.[/QB]

Post it just for clarification are you saying above that at 5-6 months abortion is wrong Biblicaly or secularly. Or both?
Murph

 

[SBG]

How about the premature birth, that the only breath they take is induced by a respirator? Is God breathing into their nostrils, or is a machine? Life begins at conception....period! The Bible is quite clear on this, and the overwhelming majority of people realize this, and ALL BORN AGAIN PEOPLE KNOW THIS!!!!!

 

[Daniel David]

Post-it, I don't remember seeing a response to my questions.

I asked you if Mary had had an abortion, would she have killed God the Son or merely ridded herself of unwanted weight?

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by post-it:

Abortion is preventing life from occuring, that I know for a fact. Is that murder? NO! This means I believe that life starts but can be ended without that being wrong. But at 5-6 months then it is wrong.

Post it just for clarification are you saying above that at 5-6 months abortion is wrong Biblicaly or secularly. Or both?
Murph[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Bibilcaly I believe it is saying it is wrong at the point that a fetus can breath with or without a machine.

Secularly, it is wrong at the point that conception is prevented since that would prevent a life that could develop, given that animal's directive (survival of the species) is to reproduce. Use of a condom is unnatural thus interfering with nature (secular).

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by SBG:
How about the premature birth, that the only breath they take is induced by a respirator? Is God breathing into their nostrils, or is a machine? Life begins at conception....period! The Bible is quite clear on this, and the overwhelming majority of people realize this, and ALL BORN AGAIN PEOPLE KNOW THIS!!!!!

Both your claims are incorrect. Since you failed to show why your claims are true, I wont' either.

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by 2 Timothy 4:2:
Post-it, I don't remember seeing a response to my questions.

I asked you if Mary had had an abortion, would she have killed God the Son or merely ridded herself of unwanted weight?

God ordained that Christ would be born, she would not have been able to stop it. I believe that certain events will happen or God knows which women will and which won't. Take your pick.

 

[SBG]

You won't prove your claims are true, because you can't. Thank God for the guidance of his Holy Spirit, and the discernment it brings! Born again people have it....impostors don't!

 

[suzanne]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by post-it:

Abortion is preventing life from occuring, that I know for a fact. Is that murder? NO! This means I believe that life starts but can be ended without that being wrong. But at 5-6 months then it is wrong.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just wondering how you came to the 5-6 month cut off. If you believe abortion is murder whenever a baby can breath either on its own or through intervention, then that can happen before 5 months.

suzanne

 

[Daniel David]

Okay Post-it, would you like to answer my question? IF Mary had had an abortion, would she have been guilty of killing the Christ?

Obviously she didn't.

 

[onevoice]

Originally posted by post-it:

I would still like to hear justification for God's direction to the priest to cause abortion (book of Numbers). Or do we pretend that didn't happen. Was God wrong? I don't think he was but most of you who feel abortion is murder pre--5-6 months are saying God commands can be wrong and we can overlook some, at least this one. Is that true?

Do we follow scripture or do we do what is right for our day? The homosexual issue comes to mind if we want to stop treating people wrong because the Bible indicates that something is wrong or right and it is "out of date" in it meaning.[/QB]

Once again, the scripture does not say she is with child. If God meant she was with Child in numbers 5, I am sure he would have said so. Also, when you give birth your thigh does not ROT, sounds like a VD. Also, I sent you a post earlier showing the Hebrew word for DUST means DUST not HERB.

This scripture has nothing to do with abortion.

Also:

Katelin Elizabeth Moran weighed 1 pound, 2 ounces when she was born nearly four months premature on May 11. During her 100 days in St. Peter's Hospital, she went through operations to repair a leaky valve in her heart, retina problems in both eyes and a hernia.

http://www.hannibal.net/stories/082099/Babyborn.html

This baby was 5 months old. Not alive according to you.

and another born at 5 months. . .
MAYWOOD, Ill. (AP) - A baby girl who weighed just 12 ounces at birth went home Thursday, more than three months after she was born.

and another at 5 months. ..

[I}Police are probing the death of a premature baby at Victoria General Hospital last year, in a case sources say could spark more controversy between pro and anti-abortion groups.

The case involved a caesarian birth in which the baby died 11 hours later.

The caesarian delivery - 23 weeks after conception - was performed after the hospital’s abortion committee turned down a request for an abortion.

Det. Sgt. Blake Green of Victoria police said police are investigating the incident at the request of B.C. Chief Coroner William McArthur who will conduct an inquiry into the matter.

Sources say unanswered questions surround the case.[/I]

 

[Ransom]

Wow, seven or so additional pages to this thread over the weekend, and post-it still hasn't managed to get beyond first principles, despite all his fancy rhetoric.

First principles: What is the unborn?

Post-it claims it is not human. Then, what is it?

Post-it claimed it was a body part. This was shown to be false. So what is it?

Post-it then tried to draw an analogy between the unborn and a transplanted body part. This, too, was shown to be false. So what is it?

He then tried to draw an analogy between the unborn and an unfertilized gamete. This, again, was shown to be faulty. So what is it?

In the seven pages of posts that have ensued in the meantime, post-it has retreated into overblown emotional rhetoric about back-alley abortions and supposed Biblical proof-texts showing that the fetus is not human.

Post-it seems well informed concerning what the unborn is not, but he has not yet told us what it is.

If a fetus is not a human person, abortion needs no justification.
If a fetus is a human person, abortion can find no justification.

So what is it?

[ August 26, 2002, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[onevoice]

If a fetus is not a human person, abortion needs no justification.
If a fetus is a human person, abortion can find no justification.

--------------------------------------------
Wow!!!!

 

[Abiyah]

Thank you, Gina. I am wanting to avoid those
false sites, as you said, so I was hoping
maybe there would be some recommended
ones. (I have zero medical background.)

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by post-it:
Yes, I would agree that life starts at conception. That is pretty obvious. However, scripture says something different.

Post-it, What does the phrase "with child" mean? It is used 26 times in the Bible by my count... always referring to a pregnant woman. It must have some significance, Don't you think? Is a pregnant woman ever referred to by something other than "with child" or a similar phrase?

Before I ever started on this thread, I made a statement that All I wanted people to do is to stop making the statement that "God and the Bible are against abortion", they are not.

... time and time again, you have been shown that indeed the Bible considers an unborn child, a child... not a body part or any of the other inane and callous labels you have asserted. To cause it to cease living is murder.

Bringing God into it

God is in it. It is a moral issue of right and wrong. Commiting one sin to cover another does not justify either one.

... and then lying about the Biblical stand is Blasphemy.

So why have you persistently done so? You started with a conclusion then have denied direct applications of scripture while twisting other scripture to fit you purposes.

[

 

[SBG]

You're right Scott!!!! But there is no way to argue with an apostate.

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by suzanne:

Just wondering how you came to the 5-6 month cut off. If you believe abortion is murder whenever a baby can breath either on its own or through intervention, then that can happen before 5 months.

suzanne[/QB]

My point was not the factual date a fetus can breathe, that is up to medicine, if it is 5 mt or 4 mth the so be it. The first breath argument stands as the point of the argument. And is what scripture supports.

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by 2 Timothy 4:2:
Okay Post-it, would you like to answer my question? IF Mary had had an abortion, would she have been guilty of killing the Christ?

Obviously she didn't.

Invalid question. If Jesus had broken a bone, would he be the Christ?

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by SBG:
You won't prove your claims are true, because you can't. Thank God for the guidance of his Holy Spirit, and the discernment it brings! Born again people have it....impostors don't!

If you don't want to stay on topic, stay out of the thread. RED HERRING!

 

[SBG]

I was on topic! Blue Goose!

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by onevoice:

Once again, the scripture does not say she is with child. If God meant she was with Child in numbers 5, I am sure he would have said so. Also, when you give birth your thigh does not ROT, sounds like a VD. Also, I sent you a post earlier showing the Hebrew word for DUST means DUST not HERB.

This scripture has nothing to do with abortion.

[/QUOTE] It has everything to do with a God approved abortion for women who might have gotten pregnant from adultery. Reread Numbers 5.

Bitter drink refers to the Bitter herb not the dust they used. The dust was part of the "mixture" it wasn't the source that made the drink bitter.

If she was not pregnant the stomach and thighs would not abort the baby, if she was pregnant, she would get sick and miscarry.

Even Theologian will admit these are the facts. bitter Herbal mixtures were the way abortions were commonly done in those days.

Now if you don't believe the facts, lets look at common sense. If the woman "could" have gotten pregnant, why in the world would a priest give her something that could cause here stomach to swell in pain?

Rotten thighs most likely referred to the dead rotting fetus that would emerge from between the thighs.