Is America Under Judgement From God? Is America Under An Abandonment Judgement From God?

[Covenanter]

It is correct that the ungodly human heart devises evil, and publishes evil as being good.

Wars in the past have been moderated by technology in that more were not killed. Such is no longer the case.

Because of the technology advancements, the prophecies of the destruction of huge amounts of the earth revealed in the 7 bowls of Revelation can be taken literally, where just a 100 years ago, many taught them as allegory or hyperbole, if they were taught at all.

Where is the Holy Spirit?

What assembly earnestly desires to be cleansed from the worldly influences? Rather, chases after the worldly to appear attractive. Just as Jezebel, the excess and deviousness is covered.

What believer earnestly stores the Scriptures in the very core of their life to guide them away from sinfulness? Learning of discernment and understanding is found in self help books and rallies.

The "shining light set upon a hill" is being extinguished.

That it happen soon or late will not deter the flame going out.

If not Scripture, then history holds such thinking as having veracity.

Does Revelation prophesy "the destruction of huge amounts of the earth?"

When we realise that the events of Revelation are:

1:to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.​

it becomes clear that the prophecy is of first century events, particularly the events leading up to the AD 70 destruction. We need to understand that the translation of the Greek "ge" often refers to the "land" of Israel.

For instance in Rev. 6 we see the Triumphant Lion-Lamb on the white horse wearing a crown and going out conquering and to conquer.

6:3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.​

We are NOT reading about the activities of a supposed Antichrist thousands of your later. We are reading about the days of vengeance prophesied before Calvary as Jesus looked over Jerusalem & the temple from Mt Olivet.

Note & compare:

6:7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth/land, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth/land.

Ezekiel 14:21 For thus says the Lord God: “How much more it shall be when I send My four severe judgments on Jerusalem—the sword and famine and wild beasts and pestilence—to cut off man and beast from it? ​

The faithful believers, though martyrs, are safe & blessed.

Rev. 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Ezekiel 14:22 Yet behold, there shall be left in it a remnant who will be brought out, both sons and daughters; surely they will come out to you, and you will see their ways and their doings. Then you will be comforted concerning the disaster that I have brought upon Jerusalem, all that I have brought upon it. 23 And they will comfort you, when you see their ways and their doings; and you shall know that I have done nothing without cause that I have done in it,” says the Lord God.​

Jesus specifically warned the women of Jerusalem of the events of the 6th seal:

Luke 23:27 And a great multitude of the people followed Him, and women who also mourned and lamented Him. 28 But Jesus, turning to them, said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!’ 30 Then they will begin ‘to say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”’ 31 For if they do these things in the green wood, what will be done in the dry?”

Rev. 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moonbecame like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
​

Which reminds me:

Mat. 21:18 Now in the morning, as He returned to the city, He was hungry. 19 And seeing a fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it but leaves, and said to it, “Let no fruit grow on you ever again.” Immediately the fig tree withered away.​

 

[HankD]

There is no due process for the unborn child. Thurgood Marshall and others said that it was up to the mother. It is an echo of the Dred Scott case,

Hmm, the Civil War proved (or forced) the Dred Scott ruling to be in error as to the rights of black humanity;

“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”

Roe versus Wade therefore needs to be overturned at every level of government - federal and state.

Human life is not created at birth but at conception.

HankD

 

[agedman]

If a post gets too long (as mine do, do) the general reader becomes quickly lost, so I intend (as I have time) to break this into smaller bites to gnaw upon.

Does Revelation prophesy "the destruction of huge amounts of the earth?"

When we realise that the events of Revelation are:

1:to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.​

it becomes clear that the prophecy is of first century events, particularly the events leading up to the AD 70 destruction. We need to understand that the translation of the Greek "ge" often refers to the "land" of Israel.

It is very hard to debate an issue when one holds a date of writing considerably different than another.

Holding an early date of writing just is historically inaccurate, and inconsistent with the known timeline of John's ministry in Ephesus.

Because I hold that John didn't write the revelation until he was on Patmos (sometime during the years 94-95AD), and released at the death of the emperor (95-96 AD) then ALL that pertains to visions in the revelation ARE NOT in consideration because the plowing under of Jerusalem occurred over a quarter century before. It is impossible to prophecy about what has already taken place.

Because you disagree with this date (although John states he was on the island at the writing, and it is historically accurate as to when John was on the island) there is little value that I can offer, but for some readers, I will attempt to continue.

 

[agedman]

For instance in Rev. 6 we see the Triumphant Lion-Lamb on the white horse wearing a crown and going out conquering and to conquer.

6:3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.​

We are NOT reading about the activities of a supposed Antichrist thousands of your later. We are reading about the days of vengeance prophesied before Calvary as Jesus looked over Jerusalem & the temple from Mt Olivet.

Again, because of the dating difference, in which you inappropriately ignore the historical evidence of when the Revelation was written, you draw conclusions that are misaligned.

Nothing here to dispute, because you attribute it as if John were writing the news rather than prophecy.

 

[agedman]

Note & compare:

6:7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth/land, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth/land.

Ezekiel 14:21 For thus says the Lord God: “How much more it shall be when I send My four severe judgments on Jerusalem—the sword and famine and wild beasts and pestilence—to cut off man and beast from it?​

​

Again, when one doesn't align the dating of a writing of John correctly, it throws all manner of alignment of prophecy into question - most often, wrong alignment and horribly wrong conclusions.

Even in the example above, trying to combine two prophecies to indicate the same event cannot happen if one of the prophecies was written AFTER the event.

John did not write news, rather he recorded what was shown would happen. That is why the book is called Revelation. It tells of the end. It finishes the story. Lets the folks know that God has purpose and plan and that it will all work out for believers in victory.

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD was some 25 years BEFORE John was on Patmos. That is historical fact.

John states that while on the Island of Patmos, he was given the prophecy. That is Scripture fact. (Revelation 1:9) Did John lie? or are the ones who want an early date to the writing believing a lie?

John's stay on Patmos ended with the death of the Emperor Domitian in 96-97 AD - that is historical fact.

Therefore, the writing HAD to take place in the years 94-95AD, though because of the wording of Revelation 1:9, some consider John wrote the account AFTER the Patmos experience which would put it even closer the the end of the first century.

Again, it is hard to discuss prophecy when one doesn't rely on facts of both Scripture and historical accuracy.

 

[agedman]

Does Revelation prophesy "the destruction of huge amounts of the earth?"

Ok, I decided to cut this short, because it ends up I type the same basic problem with your thinking over and over.

Does Revelation prophesy the destruction of huge amounts of the earth?

Absolutely.

That by removing the historic facts concerning the writing, so that the writing can be inappropriately assigned to prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, is profoundly ignorant.

Such denies Scripture veracity.
Such denies Historical evidence.
Such denies the very Sovereignty of God to be truthful.

When God declares the destruction of land and water, it is not limited to a small patch of dirt in the middle east.

Such thinking is just so terribly wrong, it is almost deceitful.

How dare such doubt God, and bring disrespect to His word!

 

[Covenanter]

Ok, I decided to cut this short, because it ends up I type the same basic problem with your thinking over and over.

Does Revelation prophesy the destruction of huge amounts of the earth?

Absolutely.

That by removing the historic facts concerning the writing, so that the writing can be inappropriately assigned to prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, is profoundly ignorant.

Such denies Scripture veracity.
Such denies Historical evidence.
Such denies the very Sovereignty of God to be truthful.

When God declares the destruction of land and water, it is not limited to a small patch of dirt in the middle east.

Such thinking is just so terribly wrong, it is almost deceitful.

How dare such doubt God, and bring disrespect to His word!

You are basing your assertions on supposed "historical accuracy" NOT Scripture. Why can't we accept the likelihood that John visited Patmos in the 60s to spread the Word ? - for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[agedman]

You are basing your assertions on supposed "historical accuracy" NOT Scripture. Why can't we accept the likelihood that John visited Patmos in the 60s to spread the Word ? - for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You can do all the "LIKELIHOOD" thinking you want.

But there is NO proof John even considered going to Patmos (a very small island of less than 8 miles long, and 5 miles across) to "spread the word."

However, there IS proof John was on Patmos in the 90's.

Why would one hold on to a "likelihood" which can also be considered an UN-likelihood, in comparison to historical FACTS?

Polycarp was the student of John. There is not a single mention in anything from Polycarp that resembles your thinking of prophecy.

Justin Martyr was a contemporary of Polycarp. There is not a single mention of anything from Justin Martyr that resembles your thinking of prophecy.

You would think that they would have proclaimed your view loudly, and forcefully, but they did not.

Rather, the statements we have are just the opposite.

Both looked FORWARD to the literal in the flesh return of Christ as did ALL accounts of the earliest church folks who lived decades after 70 AD.

 

[prophecy70]

You can do all the "LIKELIHOOD" thinking you want.

But there is NO proof John even considered going to Patmos (a very small island of less than 8 miles long, and 5 miles across) to "spread the word."

However, there IS proof John was on Patmos in the 90's.

Why would one hold on to a "likelihood" which can also be considered an UN-likelihood, in comparison to historical FACTS?

Polycarp was the student of John. There is not a single mention in anything from Polycarp that resembles your thinking of prophecy.

Justin Martyr was a contemporary of Polycarp. There is not a single mention of anything from Justin Martyr that resembles your thinking of prophecy.

You would think that they would have proclaimed your view loudly, and forcefully, but they did not.

Rather, the statements we have are just the opposite.

Both looked FORWARD to the literal in the flesh return of Christ as did ALL accounts of the earliest church folks who lived decades after 70 AD.

You claim it enough so
Please show me support of the Late date of Revelation.