Is Arminianism heresy?

[Sapper Woody]

Wrath and love are two extremes.

While I don't agree with Bob, this statement isn't true. Wrath is is a noun describing severe anger, derived from wrath, which is to be very angry.



When my daughters broke something of mine, I was wroth. They felt my wrath. But I still loved them.

 

[The American Dream]

While I don't agree with Bob, this statement isn't true. Wrath is is a noun describing severe anger, derived from wrath, which is to be very angry.

When my daughters broke something of mine, I was wroth. They felt my wrath. But I still loved them.

By the way, I owe you an apology. I had no idea you had been out of the service.

 

[Sapper Woody]

By the way, I owe you an apology. I had no idea you had been out of the service.

Apology accepted.

 

[BobRyan]

That is a fine speech but not the Bible.

Let's look at the actual Bible where Christ's lament for those he loves is expressed along with their doom.

Matt 23

7 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate;

[FONT=&quot]Ezek 18[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]30“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. “Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31“Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32“For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and LIVE!"

So then wh[FONT=&quot]at [FONT=&quot]kind of hell - what kind of lake of fire ev[FONT=&quot]ent does God have planned for those who use free will to reject the gospel - and yet he loves them?[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Matt 10:28 "fear Him who can [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]destroy BOTH body AND soul [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]in fiery hell"[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

While I don't agree with Bob, this statement isn't true. Wrath is is a noun describing severe anger, derived from wrath, which is to be very angry.



When my daughters broke something of mine, I was wroth. They felt my wrath. But I still loved them.

Since Bob is quoting the Bible - it might be helpful if you point to the part of it where you differ.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Protestant]

While I don't agree with Bob, this statement isn't true. Wrath is is a noun describing severe anger, derived from wrath, which is to be very angry.

When my daughters broke something of mine, I was wroth. They felt my wrath. But I still loved them.

Hello Mr. Woody:

A parent chastises his child out of love and concern.

We, by nature, are not God's children.

We are sons of Satan.

The wrath of God is not the chastising love of God for His children.

Rather it is so fierce that unless expiated the children of wrath who become unbelieving adults of wrath will experience eternal torment where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

One of Satan's most prolific lies proclaims we are all God's children loved by God.

 

[Sapper Woody]

Hello Mr. Woody:





A parent chastises his child out of love and concern.





We, by nature, are not God's children.





We are sons of Satan.





The wrath of God is not the chastising love of God for His children.





Rather it is so fierce that unless expiated the children of wrath who become unbelieving adults of wrath will experience eternal torment where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.





One of Satan's most prolific lies proclaims we are all God's children loved by God.

I am very close to agreeing with your post. I personal believe that God loves all people. However, I believe that once a person dies without salvation, His love ceases for them. They made their choice and must spend eternity without Him, in hell and subsequently the lake of fire.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

I am very close to agreeing with your post. I personal believe that God loves all people.

"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." (Psalm 5:5)

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Yes He does. "God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" John 3:16.

The term world is used repeatedly in the scriptures in a limited sense; however, this fact seldom receives proper recognition. In the Gospel of John alone there are such usages in: Jn 6:33, Jn 8:12, Jn 8:26, Jn 12:19, Jn 14:19, Jn 15:18, Jn 16:20, Jn 17:9, Jn 17:14, Jn 18:20. It is unfortunate that the few texts which are misinterpreted as teaching universal atonement are not interpreted in light of the many texts which describe Christ's work as being for a special group of people (Mt 1:21, Jn 10:11, Jn 11:51, Jn 15:13, Jn 17:1, Rom 8:32-33, Eph 5:25, Tit 2:14, Heb 9:15).

Critics of special atonement frequently claim that God would be unfair if He did not give all men opportunity to be saved. Such reasoning fails to appreciate the fact that God is under no obligation to save anyone, and that salvation is therefore a gift of grace. Furthermore, if God is obligated to provide opportunity to all, then it follows that He is also obligated to give equal opportunity to all, yet experience plainly shows God has not done this.

The claim God loved all men to the extent that Christ died for all men is inconsistent with what the scriptures teach about the love of God. This inconsistency occurs at several points:

1) Though God never deals unjustly with any man, the scriptures clearly teach His grace is not extended in equal degrees to all men (Mt 11:25, Mt 20:1-16, Lk 4:25-27, Rom 9:11-24, 2Thes 2:13). Inasmuch as grace derives from the love of God, varying degrees of grace imply varying degrees of love.
2) The scriptures teach God's corrective chastisement is upon all He loves. But the scriptures also teach not all are under this chastisement (Ps 93:12-13, 1Cor 11:32, Heb 12:6-8, Rev 3:19).
3) The scriptures teach God's love is effectual in the sense it produces change in those receiving it; however, in no case is the effect universally observed; therefore, the cause cannot be universally applied (1Jn 4:19, Tit 3:3-5, Eph 2:4-5).
4) God's love is presented as an assurance of salvation (2Tim 2:19, Rom 8:32, Rom 8:38), yet it could be of no assurance at all if others under this same love will finally be damned. Salvation is assured by God's love because He changes not (Is 49:15, Jer 31:3, Mal 3:6, Heb 13:5, Heb 13:8). The unchangeableness of His love implies that if He ever loved one to the extent that He would die for them and save them, then He will continue to love them to this same extent through all eternity.

 

[Robert William]

Yes He does. "God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" John 3:16.

"God is not WILLING that ANY should perish" 2Peter 3.

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That's only one side of His attributes, the wrath of God abides on ALL unbelievers, the Justice of God is also love. By the way, you have taken 2 Peter out of contex, look to the beginning to see who the subject is, it`s the Beloved, not all humans.



Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[Robert William]

Since Bob is quoting the Bible - it might be helpful if you point to the part of it where you differ.

in Christ,

Bob

The Old is obsolete, and you can`t drag the New into the Old, it was a different Covenant of Law, for obedience they received land and inheritances, but most of them were cursed and are in Hell.

Heb 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Protestant]

I am very close to agreeing with your post. I personal believe that God loves all people. However, I believe that once a person dies without salvation, His love ceases for them. They made their choice and must spend eternity without Him, in hell and subsequently the lake of fire.

Personal belief is one thing, belief in God's Word is another.

The entire OT describes God's favor (read: 'love') residing on specific persons, culminating in the nation of Israel who alone had the revelation of the true God and His coming Messiah.

We discover in Romans 9 that within the nation of Israel was an elect group favored with the grace of saving faith. They were the true Israelites whose hearts were circumcised by God, and whose faith was that of Abraham.

Think of the billions who died without knowledge of the true God and the way of salvation.

Do you consider that fact an act of love on God's part?

Do you wish to hate your enemy?

Then deny him knowledge of the only way to salvation.

In the NT God opened up this knowledge to the Gentile nations.....knowledge which had been hidden from them for thousands of years.

Today we are to love our enemies by telling them the truth of salvation.

To do so is to invite hatred and ridicule.

For Christ is a stumbling block to Roman Catholics and all the cults, including SDAs.

 

[Protestant]

The term world is used repeatedly in the scriptures in a limited sense; however, this fact seldom receives proper recognition. In the Gospel of John alone there are such usages in: Jn 6:33, Jn 8:12, Jn 8:26, Jn 12:19, Jn 14:19, Jn 15:18, Jn 16:20, Jn 17:9, Jn 17:14, Jn 18:20. It is unfortunate that the few texts which are misinterpreted as teaching universal atonement are not interpreted in light of the many texts which describe Christ's work as being for a special group of people (Mt 1:21, Jn 10:11, Jn 11:51, Jn 15:13, Jn 17:1, Rom 8:32-33, Eph 5:25, Tit 2:14, Heb 9:15).

Critics of special atonement frequently claim that God would be unfair if He did not give all men opportunity to be saved. Such reasoning fails to appreciate the fact that God is under no obligation to save anyone, and that salvation is therefore a gift of grace. Furthermore, if God is obligated to provide opportunity to all, then it follows that He is also obligated to give equal opportunity to all, yet experience plainly shows God has not done this.

The claim God loved all men to the extent that Christ died for all men is inconsistent with what the scriptures teach about the love of God. This inconsistency occurs at several points:

1) Though God never deals unjustly with any man, the scriptures clearly teach His grace is not extended in equal degrees to all men (Mt 11:25, Mt 20:1-16, Lk 4:25-27, Rom 9:11-24, 2Thes 2:13). Inasmuch as grace derives from the love of God, varying degrees of grace imply varying degrees of love.
2) The scriptures teach God's corrective chastisement is upon all He loves. But the scriptures also teach not all are under this chastisement (Ps 93:12-13, 1Cor 11:32, Heb 12:6-8, Rev 3:19).
3) The scriptures teach God's love is effectual in the sense it produces change in those receiving it; however, in no case is the effect universally observed; therefore, the cause cannot be universally applied (1Jn 4:19, Tit 3:3-5, Eph 2:4-5).
4) God's love is presented as an assurance of salvation (2Tim 2:19, Rom 8:32, Rom 8:38), yet it could be of no assurance at all if others under this same love will finally be damned. Salvation is assured by God's love because He changes not (Is 49:15, Jer 31:3, Mal 3:6, Heb 13:5, Heb 13:8). The unchangeableness of His love implies that if He ever loved one to the extent that He would die for them and save them, then He will continue to love them to this same extent through all eternity.

This is an excellent post for the depth of truthful, biblical information contained.

Did you just write this off the top of your head or did you copy it from another author?

 

[BrotherJoseph]

This is an excellent post for the depth of truthful, biblical information contained.

Did you just write this off the top of your head or did you copy it from another author?

I did not write it, it is from herehttp://www.pb.org/abstract.html, but unfortunately the author is not listed!

 

[DHK]

Personal belief is one thing, belief in God's Word is another.

The entire OT describes God's favor (read: 'love') residing on specific persons, culminating in the nation of Israel who alone had the revelation of the true God and His coming Messiah.

You have your analogies mixed up. The Lord offered deliverance for ALL of Israel, not just a select group of Israelites. For example it wasn't just the tribe of Levi or the tribe of Judah that were elected for salvation. He provided redemption for the entire nation. Remember that both Jacob and Esau came from "the loins of Abraham." But what did God say about Esau?
And what about King Saul? There are many that don't consider him "saved," as in the end he turned away from the Lord. Ahab and Jezebel were the most wicked king and queen of Israel respectively. They were not "among the elect." Yet redemption was provided for them. They chose to reject God's redemption of their own free will.

We discover in Romans 9 that within the nation of Israel was an elect group favored with the grace of saving faith. They were the true Israelites whose hearts were circumcised by God, and whose faith was that of Abraham.

But all Israel had the Word, the Law, the Truth, and Deliverance (out of Egypt), saw or heard of the miracles of Moses--no excuse not to trust in Jehovah, but some of their own free will did rebel. By their choice they either obeyed or disobeyed. By their choice they chose to listen to the bad or evil report of ten wicked "spies" and paid the consequences by wandering in the wilderness for 40 years instead of entering into the Promised Land.

Think of the billions who died without knowledge of the true God and the way of salvation.

Do you consider that fact an act of love on God's part?

Consider the billions that you have never preached the gospel to, because you haven't gone to them. Do you think their blood will be upon your hands? You are in part responsible for those who have not heard. Are you accusing God of being a failure? Really?

Do you wish to hate your enemy?

Then deny him knowledge of the only way to salvation.

Christ is the only way to salvation, and he never turned any away in the NT, and he will never turn any away today. "Whosoever will may come." The Bible consistently teaches that; the Calvinist consistently denies it.

In the NT God opened up this knowledge to the Gentile nations.....knowledge which had been hidden from them for thousands of years.

In the OT God gave His Word to the Jews. There were many saved as a result of both hearing and seeing the testimony of the Jews. They were to be a light and a testimony to the Gentile nations, just as you are today.

Today we are to love our enemies by telling them the truth of salvation.

To do so is to invite hatred and ridicule.

For Christ is a stumbling block to Roman Catholics and all the cults, including SDAs.

The gospel is an offence to all the unsaved. The same gospel brings good news to all the unsaved. Is there a reason you want to speak out of both sides of your mouth?

 

[BrotherJoseph]

[

Christ is the only way to salvation, and he never turned any away in the NT, and he will never turn any away today. "Whosoever will may come." The Bible consistently teaches that; the Calvinist consistently denies it.

Brother DHK,

Why did you elect believe the gospel of Jesus's death and resurrection for sin, but others you may know do not believe? (I am sure we all know at least one unbeliever).

 

[convicted1]

Personal belief is one thing, belief in God's Word is another.

The entire OT describes God's favor (read: 'love') residing on specific persons, culminating in the nation of Israel who alone had the revelation of the true God and His coming Messiah.

We discover in Romans 9 that within the nation of Israel was an elect group favored with the grace of saving faith. They were the true Israelites whose hearts were circumcised by God, and whose faith was that of Abraham.

Think of the billions who died without knowledge of the true God and the way of salvation.

Do you consider that fact an act of love on God's part?

Do you wish to hate your enemy?

Then deny him knowledge of the only way to salvation.

In the NT God opened up this knowledge to the Gentile nations.....knowledge which had been hidden from them for thousands of years.

Today we are to love our enemies by telling them the truth of salvation.

To do so is to invite hatred and ridicule.

For Christ is a stumbling block to Roman Catholics and all the cults, including SDAs.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I did not write it, it is from herehttp://www.pb.org/abstract.html, but unfortunately the author is not listed!

Primitive Baptists. Too bad there is too few of us. Reminds me of Frogman and some of my other brothers...I desperately need them in the NE.

 

[Eliyahu]

John Wesley :

1. Predestination is a doctrine full of "blasphemy."
2. The doctrine represents Christ as a "hypocrite, a deceiver of the people, a man void of common sincerity."
3. The doctrine "destroys all" God's "attributes at once. It overturns both his justice, mercy, and truth."
4. Wesley connects those who ascribe to predestination with those who "represent God as worse than the devil--more false, more cruel, more unjust."

http://staffordsgreenhouse.blogspot.ca/2011/09/free-grace-john-wesley-sermon-summary.html

Calvinism is a Heresy.

Predestination theory is a Blasphemy to God.

Calvinists ignores the exceptions:

Men are depraved totally with the exception to hear the voice from God.

Almighty God cannot do certain things because of His own Attributes.

No sin was left unatoned at the Cross ( Universal Atonement)

The Praeyer in John 17:9 was about the further protection after the Salvation which has nothing to do with Limited Atonement.

God never predestined ISIS to kidnap, rape, torture, and kill the Christians and the other people, but He foreknew that and prepared the Hell.

God of Predestination theory is wicked, sinful, and must go to the Hell

Calvin was never re-baptized after the infant baptism, teaching the infant baptism, baptismal regeneration, replacement of Baptism with Sprinkling, Clergy system, and commited the intended murder of Servetus.

HUman destiny is not of God alone or of Man alone, but the result of the interaction and reactions each other.

God does not coerce any human being to believe, because such faith by coercion is not the true faith.


I am proud that I have got out of CAlvinism, Predestination Theory to which I had adhered to since my high school days in 1960's


Eliyahu

 

[DHK]

[



Brother DHK,

Why did you elect believe the gospel of Jesus's death and resurrection for sin, but others you may know do not believe? (I am sure we all know at least one unbeliever).

There are two sources that you can inquire for an answer to your question:
1. God Himself. If you know of someone who is not saved. Pray. Pray earnestly that the Lord may lay hold of him, convict him of sin and save him before it is too late. Perhaps he may perish because we have not prayed enough.

2. Yourself. Have you gone to that person with the gospel, urged him to repent and believe the gospel. Have you done everything in your power in obedience to the Great Commission, to urge him to come to Christ. What is missing here. Yes. Why hasn't he come to Christ? Ask yourself that question. What more is there that I can do?

James 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

 

[Eliyahu]

The Synod condemned the religious doctrine of Arminianism as heresy. There followed the political condemnation of the statesman Johan van Oldenbarnevelt who had been the protector of the Remonstrants. For the crime of general perturbation in the state of the nation, both in Church and State (treason), he was beheaded on 13 May 1619, only four days after the final meeting of the Synod. As consequence of the Arminian defeat the jurist Hugo Grotius was given a life sentence in prison; but he escaped with the help of his wife. Both Van Oldenbarnevelt and Grotius had in fact been imprisoned since 29 August 1618.

This alone proves how wicked the Calvinists are!

They are very similar to Roman Catholic killing the people just because they differ in their faith though they didn't commit any civil offence or crimes.


Eliyahu