Is believing/faith a work ?

[kyredneck]

Romans 4:5 comes to mind. "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

John 6:28-29 comes to mind:

28 They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Jn 6

 

[Van]

Van, are you aware what promise Paul is referring to? Hint: It isn't salvation and it isn't believing.

Go back and read Romans 1-3 to get the answer.

Are you aware you do not understand the obvious truths presented in scripture?

 

[Van]

Van, are you aware what promise Paul is referring to? Hint: It isn't salvation and it isn't believing.

Go back and read Romans 1-3 to get the answer.

Are you aware you have no idea of what scripture says in Romans?

 

[Van]

I highlighted the important disagreement I have.
You emphasize "our faith", thus making it a human work, not God's gift of faith. You double down, calling "our faith"... "saving faith", which doubly emphasizes man doing the work. Then you tell us that "our faith", our "saving faith" causes God to credit it as righteousness.

Can you not see how your claims read to any discerning person?

Now, perhaps I have missed this phrase in the Bible, but where is the term "saving faith" found in scripture, especially as opposed to non-saving faith?

Finally, Paul's argument in Romans 1-11 is about being justified by faith alone. He's not talking about salvation. Salvation is by grace alone.

Note the vast number of verses, more than two dozen, that this bogus post tries to nullify.
Did I say our faith was saving faith. No, so an outright falsehood is allowed to be posted.
Did I say our faith "causes" God to credit us with "saving faith?" No, so another outright falsehood is allowed to be posted.

 

[Van]

So if one says God saved me because of my believing/ faith

Then congratulations you are boasting about God saved you by your works !

Close but no Cigar! It is a boast about God saving you by your work (singular) but it is still bogus as salvation does not depend upon the person who wills or does things to be saved. Romans 9:16

 

[DaveXR650]

So if one says God saved me because of my believing/ faith

Then congratulations you are boasting about God saved you by your works !

It gets tough here because all that the average Baptist means when they say that is that without faith you cannot get right with God. And faith, no matter what your view is on the origin of it, is exercised by the individual. This is very similar to what Jonathan Edwards said regarding faith. In that sense, faith is a condition, and so someone might say that they are saved because of their faith. As long as they are not attaching some type of saving MERIT to this faith I don't have a problem with someone saying the above.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

It is certain that no one gets saved without repenting and trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation* (Hebrews 11:6 etc.).
But it is equally certain that no one believes unless God opens his heart to do so (Matthew 11:25-27; John 3:19; 1 Corinthians 2:14 etc.).
Neither repentance nor faith is therefore a work because they are gifts of God to His people.

*God may well have other plans for those dying in infancy or imbecility, but He has not told us about them (Deuteronomy 29:29).

 

[AustinC]

It is certain that no one gets saved without repenting and trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation* (Hebrews 11:6 etc.).
But it is equally certain that no one believes unless God opens his heart to do so (Matthew 11:25-27; John 3:19; 1 Corinthians 2:14 etc.).
Neither repentance nor faith is therefore a work because they are gifts of God to His people.

*God may well have other plans for those dying in infancy or imbecility, but He has not told us about them (Deuteronomy 29:29).

Hebrews 11:6
And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.

Martin, Hebrews 11:6 isn't a salvation verse.

This is a salvation verse:
Ephesians 2:4-5
But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!)

Now let's read your other verses. Do these verses make your point?

Matthew 11:25-30

At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike. Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way!

“My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”

John 3:18-21
“There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.

1 Corinthians 2:13-16
When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others. For,

“Who can know the Lord’s thoughts?
Who knows enough to teach him?”

But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.

Deuteronomy 29:29
“The Lord our God has secrets known to no one. We are not accountable for them, but we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us, so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions.

Martin, thank you for providing the references so I could look them up. It is my preference to quote the scripture for everyone to read so that we can discern what God has to say.

 

[JonC]

Biblically belief, faith, and even repentance are not "works". In Scripture "works" refer to works of the Law - specifically to the works mentality the Jews had in regards to demonstrating a right standing under the Law.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Martin, Hebrews 11:6 isn't a salvation verse.

Sez who? Is there nothing about coming to God in it?

But if you dislike that verse, try 1 Corinthians 1:21. '.....It pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.'

This is a salvation verse:
Ephesians 2:4-5
But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!)

That's a very poor translation and will not convince those whom you seek to persuade (for example, the word 'only' is not in the Greek text). Moreover, you have (deliberately?) ignored verse 8. 'For by grace you have been saved through faith.' The God who has graciously decreed salvation for His people has also decreed the means. I repeat: no-one will ever be saved without a repentant faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

You need to understand the Five 'Solas' of the Reformation. You say you don't read books other than the Bible; well, shame on you! If you would see further, you need to stand on the shoulders of giants. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to the Scriptures alone and for God's glory alone.

 

[AustinC]

Sez who? Is there nothing about coming to God in it?

But if you dislike that verse, try 1 Corinthians 1:21. '.....It pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.'

That's a very poor translation and will not convince those whom you seek to persuade (for example, the word 'only' is not in the Greek text). Moreover, you have (deliberately?) ignored verse 8. 'For by grace you have been saved through faith.' The God who has graciously decreed salvation for His people has also decreed the means. I repeat: no-one will ever be saved without a repentant faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

You need to understand the Five 'Solas' of the Reformation. You say you don't read books other than the Bible; well, shame on you! If you would see further, you need to stand on the shoulders of giants. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to the Scriptures alone and for God's glory alone.

All this and you never addressed Hebrews 11:6, which still isn't a salvation verse.

Martin, you can claim this or that version is poor and that I didn't add Ephesians 2:8-9, yet that doesn't change the fact that all we receive from God is entirely by His grace alone. God is the cause, our response is the effect.

I am content with God's word. I am quite sure you are as well.

Ephesians 2:4-10
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Not a salvation verse.

 

[Brightfame52]

Is believing/faith a work ?

Again, yes it is. Its the action, function, deed of the mind, the soul, and heart. The word work ergon means:

work, labor, action, deed,

/érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose)

Phillip told the ethiopian eunuch Acts 8:37

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

So if one bases their Salvation on believing, their act, they are basing it on their works, no way around it !

 

[kyredneck]

New Is believing/faith a work ?

Again, yes

Again yes:

28 They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Jn 6

 

[AustinC]

Again yes:

28 They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Jn 6

...This is the work of God...

 

[kyredneck]

...This is the work of God...

When God renders to each of us 'according to our works' do you think our trust in Him will be included or not? Romans 2:5-15

 

[AustinC]

When God renders to each of us 'according to our works' do you think our trust in Him will be included or not? Romans 2:5-15

I think you do not understand how Romans 2 fits within Paul's argument of justification by faith alone starting in Romans 1 and ending in Romans 11.

The entire second chapter is an argument showing that a person is not justified by works. This leads to Paul's third chapter, which hammers it home.
Romans 2:1-29
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

 

[kyredneck]

I think you do not understand how Romans 2 fits within Paul's argument of justification by faith alone starting in Romans 1 and ending in Romans 11.

The entire second chapter is an argument showing that a person is not justified by works.

You really need to stop trying to lecture or teach others until you've learned some reading comprehension yourself, unless you're hopelessly brainwashed which may well be the case.

Nowhere did Paul ever teach 'justification by faith alone'. He in fact taught several elements of our justification, of which faith is one of them:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Ro 3
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5
33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God`s elect? It is God that justifieth; Ro 8

I've challenged you numerous times to produce one passage of scripture that states that justification is by faith alone and you're not able to find it because it's not there. It's quite the opposite:

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

 

[DaveXR650]

Nowhere did Paul ever teach 'justification by faith alone'. He in fact taught several elements of our justification, of which faith is one of them:

Faith alone just means that it is the one thing in our justification that we are actually involved in. It's the means whereby be are united with Christ. If you take on justification by faith alone you are not just taking on Austin but Jonathan Edwards and all the reformers. As far as merits for our justification the shed blood of Christ is the merit. If you look at faith as one of the things we bring for justification in the sense of a quality or merit then the OP is right in that it has become a work.

 

[AustinC]

You really need to stop trying to lecture or teach others until you've learned some reading comprehension yourself, unless you're hopelessly brainwashed which may well be the case.

Nowhere did Paul ever teach 'justification by faith alone'. He in fact taught several elements of our justification, of which faith is one of them:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Ro 3
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5
33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God`s elect? It is God that justifieth; Ro 8

I've challenged you numerous times to produce one passage of scripture that states that justification is by faith alone and you're not able to find it because it's not there. It's quite the opposite:

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

kyredneck, if you are looking for the phrase "justification by faith alone", you are right, you will not find it. If you are looking for the reaching, then Romans1-11 is your magnus opus.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

All this and you never addressed Hebrews 11:6, which still isn't a salvation verse.

I think you will find I did address it, but for your benefit I will do so again in more detail.
First of all, I deny your distinction between 'salvation verses' and others. '...That from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.' All Scripture is a salvation text. Some texts are more obvious than others, but, along with the glory of God, salvation is the great theme of the Bible. If you are claiming that certain verses can be ignored because they are not 'salvation verses,' you are deeply mistaken.
Secondly, Hebrews 11:6 is one of the more obvious texts. 'But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him' (c.f. also Deuteronomy 4:29). If anyone would find God, he must seek Him (Genesis 6:8; Psalms 63:1-2). We will agree, I'm sure, that this seeking is all of grace and all of God (Psalms 43:3), but there is no seeking of God, and certainly no coming to Him, without faith.

Martin, you can claim this or that version is poor and that I didn't add Ephesians 2:8-9, yet that doesn't change the fact that all we receive from God is entirely by His grace alone. God is the cause, our response is the effect.

I entirely agree with that, and I hope there is nothing that I have written on this forum that would make you think otherwise. But for all that I repeat that it is certain that no one gets saved without repenting and trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation

I am content with God's word. I am quite sure you are as well

Amen!