Is believing/faith a work ?

[Martin Marprelate]

Faith alone just means that it is the one thing in our justification that we are actually involved in. It's the means whereby be are united with Christ. If you take on justification by faith alone you are not just taking on Austin but Jonathan Edwards and all the reformers. As far as merits for our justification the shed blood of Christ is the merit. If you look at faith as one of the things we bring for justification in the sense of a quality or merit then the OP is right in that it has become a work.

You are entirely right. Perhaps you have read What is Faith? by J. Gresham Machen. I was looking for my copy just now, but to my irritation it seems to have disappeared. Perhaps I lent it to someone and he hasn't returned it.
In the book, Machen likens faith to an electric cable; it is that which connects us to the power of God. You say, surely that is the Holy Sprit? Indeed. It is the Spirit who gives us faith to seek and find God.

 

[AustinC]

I think you will find I did address it, but for your benefit I will do so again in more detail.
First of all, I deny your distinction between 'salvation verses' and others. '...That from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.' All Scripture is a salvation text. Some texts are more obvious than others, but, along with the glory of God, salvation is the great theme of the Bible. If you are claiming that certain verses can be ignored because they are not 'salvation verses,' you are deeply mistaken.
Secondly, Hebrews 11:6 is one of the more obvious texts. 'But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him' (c.f. also Deuteronomy 4:29). If anyone would find God, he must seek Him (Genesis 6:8; Psalms 63:1-2). We will agree, I'm sure, that this seeking is all of grace and all of God (Psalms 43:3), but there is no seeking of God, and certainly no coming to Him, without faith.

I entirely agree with that, and I hope there is nothing that I have written on this forum that would make you think otherwise. But for all that I repeat that it is certain that no one gets saved without repenting and trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation

Amen!

Where I mostly find a quibble is in the idea that there are certain requirements on a human level that lock in the salvation of God on our behalf.
As I study the teaching of Jesus as High Priest and mediator of a New Covenant for His People, I am struck by this covenant being invoked entirely by Jesus and by God's swearing an oath on our behalf. Unlike the Mosaic Covenant that was an agreement between Israel and God, the New Covenant is more closely aligned with the Abrahamic Covenant where God swore by himself that if he broke the covenant with Abraham God would be cut in half.
The New Covenant is a promise by God to His Covenant people, of His choosing, that their sins are forgiven.

This salvation is our inheritance.
We will believe, we will repent, we will have faith, precisely because God has chosen us by the New Covenant Jesus mediated for us before God the Father.

Hebrews 9:11-12,14-15,24-28
So Christ has now become the High Priest over all the good things that have come. He has entered that greater, more perfect Tabernacle in heaven, which was not made by human hands and is not part of this created world. With his own blood—not the blood of goats and calves—he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our consciences from sinful deeds so that we can worship the living God. For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. That is why he is the one who mediates a new covenant between God and people, so that all who are called can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.

For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf. And he did not enter heaven to offer himself again and again, like the high priest here on earth who enters the Most Holy Place year after year with the blood of an animal. If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice. And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment, so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.

 

[Brightfame52]

Again yes:

28 They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Jn 6

So do you understand believing to be the work of a man to do to get saved ? Yes or no

 

[DaveXR650]

Faith is contrasted as opposed to works numerous times in scripture. It is not a work because of what faith is by definition. I believe faith is a gift. But even if you believe you came up with faith because every human is given the ability to believe by God - it is still not a work.

I think in covenant theology when they tried to compare the covenant of works with the covenant of grace they realized that you still had a requirement of faith in the covenant of grace. To avoid this they said to remember that faith is a gift. I agree with them that faith is a gift but you still do it. I'm not very familiar with covenant theology so if I'm all wet on this please chime in and I will welcome the help. But I am very familiar with Jonathan Edwards on faith and it is not a work - even if you think you came up with it all by yourself. (You didn't, and you have serious errors to work out, but you have not turned it into a work).

 

[kyredneck]

Faith alone just means that it is the one thing in our justification that we are actually involved in.

There would be no need for you to explain this were it not for the fact that you're ADDING to the gospel - faith 'alone'. Period. Nowhere in the scripture is 'faith alone' to be found, in fact quite the opposite, we're told justification in NOT by faith alone.

Our faith, ALL of our works, we are actually involved in for one reason - the Spirit working within us. They are FRUITS of the Spirit.

If you take on justification by faith alone you are not just taking on Austin but Jonathan Edwards and all the reformers.

Tell me something I don't know. It's called HERD MENTALITY. The Reformers went too far and a domino effect ensued, the error keeps getting repeated.

The odd thing about this is that none of them really really really believe in justification by faith alone, in fact I dare say most if not all of them are vehemently opposed to 'easy believism'. James was.

As far as merits for our justification the shed blood of Christ is the merit.

"...the righteous judgment of God; who will render to every man according to his works:..."

In the final analysis 'according to' simply means according to whether or not they've been 'born of the Spirit', the source of our good works. It's not about our merit, it's about whether we belong to God or not.

If you look at faith as one of the things we bring for justification in the sense of a quality or merit then the OP is right in that it has become a work.

I actually agree with @AustinC in that our faith is the work of God in the sense that we're totally passive in the 'birth from above', the source of our faith. But although our faith is never mentioned in any of the final judgement passages, I've no doubt it will be included in God's righteous judgement.

 

[kyredneck]

kyredneck, if you are looking for the phrase "justification by faith alone", you are right, you will not find it. I

If it's not Biblical you should get a mind of your own and cease spouting it.

 

[kyredneck]

So do you understand believing to be the work of a man to do to get saved ? Yes or no

For gospel salvation, yes. For eternal salvation, no.

 

[AustinC]

For gospel salvation, yes. For eternal salvation, no.

This makes no sense to me. You seem to be teaching two salvations.

 

[kyredneck]

This makes no sense to me. You seem to be teaching two salvations.

No. Two aspects of one salvation, temporal and eternal.

 

[AustinC]

If it's not Biblical you should get a mind of your own and cease spouting it.

Of course it is biblical, just like the Trinity is biblical.
Our justification is not and never has been by our works. If it had, it would not be a free gift.

Romans 5:8-11,15-16

But, God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.

God gives us the faith to believe that Jesus free gift justified us. Thus we are justified by faith alone.

 

[AustinC]

No. Two aspects of one salvation, temporal and eternal.

I still don't get it.
We have a temporary salvation and then an eternal salvation? This makes no sense to me.

 

[DaveXR650]

The odd thing about this is that none of them really really really believe in justification by faith alone, in fact I dare say most if not all of them are vehemently opposed to 'easy believism'. James was.

Well, Edwards wrote "Justification by Faith Alone" and I read it and it does seem that he believed it. You ever wonder why Ephesians 2:8-9 has through faith and not any other thing that a human does? It's because faith "alone" is the thing that we as humans do as to be involved in our justification. The concept of justification by faith alone is taught repeatedly in scripture. The reformers were indeed against "easy believism" but justification by faith alone is not easy believism. James was concerned like the reformers, including Luther himself, that justification although different in definition from sanctification, should not be torn apart from it. You are right in that many things accompany salvation including love for neighbor, good works, pursuit of holiness, and so on and if not found in a person they will not be saved. But they are not involved in our justification.

 

[kyredneck]

The concept of justification by faith alone is taught repeatedly in scripture.

Not. Works are the very definer of the 'just' and the 'unjust':

15 having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust. Acts 24:15

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. Jn 5

 

[kyredneck]

I still don't get it.
We have a temporary salvation and then an eternal salvation? This makes no sense to me.

That's not at all what I said and you know it.

 

[kyredneck]

Our justification is not and never has been by our works.

Your dishonesty continues. Never have I said they were 'our' works, in fact I've gone out of my way to attribute our good works AND our faith to God.

Continue with your dishonesty and back on ignore you go.

 

[AustinC]

Your dishonesty continues. Never have I said they were 'our' works, in fact I've gone out of my way to attribute our good works AND our faith to God.

Continue with your dishonesty and back on ignore you go.

So...our justification is entirely from God who gives us faith, which does good works?
Therefore we are justified by faith alone?

 

[AustinC]

That's not at all what I said and you know it.

You said:
"No. Two aspects of one salvation, temporal and eternal."

Therefore it is reasonable for me to respond with a question.

"We have a temporary salvation and then an eternal salvation?"

How is this one salvation both temporary and eternal from your teaching?

 

[kyredneck]

So...our justification is entirely from God who gives us faith, which does good works?
Therefore we are justified by faith alone?

Ohhhh, look at you, you're soooo clever.

No. By God's grace we are irresistibly born of the Spirit, the source of our works and faith.

Although it's not to be found plainly stated in the scriptures I do agree that we are justified by God's grace...alone.

 

[kyredneck]

"We have a temporary salvation and then an eternal salvation?"

How is this one salvation both temporary and eternal from your teaching?

Your dishonesty continues. That's not what I said in post #69 and you know it.

 

[kyredneck]

@AustinC Do you know how to do an internet search? Check out 'temporal'.