Is carnal christianity biblically correct?

[Iconoclast]

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able;
3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men? I Cor 3



So if some 'didn't get up to speed' it means they were never 'saved' to begin with and bound for eternity in hell, right?

KYRED

What is your main concern where you think I error?

Do you think I do not go far enough with what is ordained and predestined?

Do you think I pay to much attention to man's responsibility?

I know we agree on most things from what I can see...but I sense you view my posts like a pebble trapped inside your boots, :laugh:

I do not think the Arminians are ready to offer me a welcome mat anytime soon:laugh:

is there some verses you think I am off on....I do not mind if you examine my posts and takes shots at them...I am welcome to correction from all who are sincere....I have much to learn on these things...don't we all?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Is that how you decided by googling it?

I can do my own research thanks.

We live in bodies that have not yet received redemption. We sin and we fail God. Paul noted himself to be the chief of sinners. The moment we sin we are doing so through the carnal mind. The difficulty for Christians to live in sin is that we have the Holy Ghost who now indwells in us. He convicts internally and living continually in a carnal state should be difficult for Christians.

In Hebrews we are told that those who God loves He chastises and corrects. It is not likely God would leave one of His children in sin for any length of time.

What we do not know is how patient is God when His children sin. Is He patient enough to wait on them for years? Scripture is not clear on this but My guess would be no. We do know that when we continue in sin as His children God will correct us.

I would also say that those who have stepped away from the Lord for very long should be more worried about whether they are saved at all then they are trying to defend being saved and carnal at the same time. Eternity is a long time to be wrong.

I decided it by studying God's word not googling.

That is why I said to google and do your own research and come to your own conclusion and then tell me where you think I am right or wrong. I was not trying to brainwash you.

But your thoughts you expressed were spot on. :thumbsup:

 

[SovereignGrace]

So Icon, were these carnal 'babes in Christ' bound for eternal damnation?:

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able;
3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men? I Cor 3

My point is many, if not most, never grow to the maturity of Mt 13:23 and "beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty".

But you LSer types don't see it that way, do you?

Who brought up Lordship Salvation in this thread?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Rom. 6:1-2. 'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?'

YES! :thumbsup::thumbs:

 

[DHK]

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able;
3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men? I Cor 3



So if some 'didn't get up to speed' it means they were never 'saved' to begin with and bound for eternity in hell, right?

That is what the typical Calvinist would have one to believe.
In the first three verses you quoted the word "carnal" is used three times; add verse four and it used four times. Four times in four verses Paul calls the Corinthians "carnal."
These are the same believers that are called "saints in Christ," "sanctified," and in this chapter, as you can notice in verse one "brethren" (a term reserved for "believers in Christ").
Later on in this same chapter, in verse 16, he calls them all collectively as "the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you."

And yet with all that evidence, they still maintain that these believers were not believers at all. They do this to deny that there are is no such thing as a carnal Christian, which the Bible definitely teaches in this passage. It cannot be denied.

 

[Revmitchell]

I decided it by studying God's word not googling.

That is why I said to google and do your own research and come to your own conclusion and then tell me where you think I am right or wrong. I was not trying to brainwash you.

But your thoughts you expressed were spot on. :thumbsup:

My question was rhetorical.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

1 Cor. 6:9. 'Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.'

"Yes, but I'm a carnal Christian!"

'Do not be deceived!'

"But.....but DHK told me it would be OK!"

'Do not be deceived!'

 

[DHK]

1 Cor. 6:9. 'Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.'

"Yes, but I'm a carnal Christian!"

Context??

"And such were some of you"

'Do not be deceived!'

"But.....but DHK told me it would be OK!"

'Do not be deceived!'

Context?
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Some people never learn.

Now go back and refute 1Cor.3:1-5.

 

[Van]

Sorry but I skipped this threads posts, and so am addressing only the OP.

What is the doctrine of Carnal Christianity? I am sure a number of different views exist. Since this thread was started by someone who might be advocating perseverance of the saints, lets consider that option.

To be a christian is yet another question. A person could be a professing christian, yet be a tare. Just because someone says "Lord, Lord" does not mean they were born anew, Jesus might say to them, depart from Me, I never knew you.

We know that new born babes in Christ are still fleshy, having not yet matured under the influence of their indwelt Holy Spirit.

So, when we boil it down, are their actual born anew Christians, who have fallen into a hole, i.e. backslidden, and remain for a prolonged period, seemingly not even striving to follow Christ?

Biblical anwer - we do not know, only God knows for sure who His children are. Practical answer, if a person is practicing sin, and by all outward appearances is not in anguish over it, they are probably unsaved.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Now go back and refute 1Cor.3:1-5.

I take it that you mean by this, "Go and exegete 1 Cor. 3:1-5 properly."
I think you'll find that it's already been done on this thread, and frankly you can find the proper meaning in any decent commentary.

But quoting a totally different context in Galatians without comment when we're discussing 1 Corinthians is not a good way to find a meaning..

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

I think the thread title is a little misleading.

Do I think Christians should live carnal lifestyles? NO! (Romans 6:1)

Are saved Christians able to live in carnality at times? Yes!

it has already been pointed out those at Corinth were carnal and yet they were saved.

Christians can be carnal, BUT.. a lot of carnal "Christians" may not be Christians at all. If a person is saved, he is still able to walk in sin, he can be in sin and walk carnally for 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 months, 5 years, or even 50 years...BUT he will be convicted and miserable if he has truly been born again. With that being said there are some who claim the name of Christ and are able to live COMFORTABLY in sin without being convicted...these are the ones that are not saved.

There is a balanced position between the two positions being fought over here.

Simply put, Christians can be carnal, but not every carnal person who claims to be a Christian is one.There are some Christians who will have their works burned up at the judgment seat of Christ "yet they themselves shall be saved". Then there are some to whom Christ will say "depart from me I never knew you."

For me I am very skeptical of people who live in habitual gross sin and claim to belong to Christ..but at the same time I realize not everyone who is carnal is just a pretender.

I know for a fact that I have been born again, because God chastens me and he deals with me about my sin... but I do often have short times and periods where I backslide and become carnal, If I can backslide for 15 minutes, I can also backslide for 15 years. So we need to warn people about the dangers of being a false profession, but at the same time realizing that not everyone who is walking carnally minded is lost.

 

[JamesL]

The notion that carnality in a believer is impossible destroys the gospel by back loading it with works, and unravels the security of the saints.

A believer is justified APART FROM works, not contingent upon his fulfillment of ambiguous requirements.

If we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He cannot deny Himself - 2Tim 2:12

 

[tyndale1946]

I think the thread title is a little misleading.

Do I think Christians should live carnal lifestyles? NO! (Romans 6:1)

Are saved Christians able to live in carnality at times? Yes!

it has already been pointed out those at Corinth were carnal and yet they were saved.

Christians can be carnal, BUT.. a lot of carnal "Christians" may not be Christians at all. If a person is saved, he is still able to walk in sin, he can be in sin and walk carnally for 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 months, 5 years, or even 50 years...BUT he will be convicted and miserable if he has truly been born again. With that being said there are some who claim the name of Christ and are able to live COMFORTABLY in sin without being convicted...these are the ones that are not saved.

There is a balanced position between the two positions being fought over here.

Simply put, Christians can be carnal, but not every carnal person who claims to be a Christian is one.There are some Christians who will have their works burned up at the judgment seat of Christ "yet they themselves shall be saved". Then there are some to whom Christ will say "depart from me I never knew you."

For me I am very skeptical of people who live in habitual gross sin and claim to belong to Christ..but at the same time I realize not everyone who is carnal is just a pretender.

I know for a fact that I have been born again, because God chastens me and he deals with me about my sin... but I do often have short times and periods where I backslide and become carnal, If I can backslide for 15 minutes, I can also backslide for 15 years. So we need to warn people about the dangers of being a false profession, but at the same time realizing that not everyone who is walking carnally minded is lost.

I agree and The Apostle Paul states nothing less as he struggled with the same thing!

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans Chapter 7 deals with his struggle and if he also had this struggle we shall also struggle daily... We are also sold under sin!... Brother Glen

 

[Iconoclast]

I agree and The Apostle Paul states nothing less as he struggled with the same thing!

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans Chapter 7 deals with his struggle and if he also had this struggle we shall also struggle daily... We are also sold under sin!... Brother Glen

In contrast to God's holy law....Paul speaks of being in a body of flesh, however there is no such thing as a carnal Christian....Christians are under the dominion of the Spirit

 

[DHK]

In contrast to God's holy law....Paul speaks of being in a body of flesh, however there is no such thing as a carnal Christian....Christians are under the dominion of the Spirit

They are only under the dominion of the Spirit when they actively yield themselves to the Spirit. It is not automatic.

 

[SovereignGrace]

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?[Rom. 6:2,1]

We have fleshly bodies we live in and will sin. But those who are truly saved will repent when they do.

No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.[1 Jn.3:6-10]

 

[tyndale1946]

They are only under the dominion of the Spirit when they actively yield themselves to the Spirit. It is not automatic.

I can't believe it!... This is the first time I agreed with DHK!... Brother Glen:thumbsup:

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Brother SovereignGrace is quite correct to quote from 1 John 3.
Sometimes Christ's sheep go astray; when they do so, the Good Shepherd will go and bring them back to the fold (Luke 15:4ff; 19:10), because Christ's sheep shall never perish (John 10:28). If, however, a sheep remains lost in sin for a longer amount of time, the possibility has to be faced that the sheep is not one of our Lord's flock after all.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Brother SovereignGrace is quite correct to quote from John 3.
Sometimes Christ's sheep go astray; when they do so, the Good Shepherd will go and bring them back to the fold (Luke 15:4ff; 19:10), because Christ's sheep shall never perish (John 10:28). If, however, a sheep remains lost in sin for a longer amount of time, the possibility has to be faced that the sheep is not one of our Lord's flock after all.

Noooo!! Tell'em to keep shooting that heroin, laying with multiple partners, live a life a debauchery, keep getting DUI's, lying to your neighbors, stealing, cheating, swindling people. You prayed the prayer and God can not lie, you prayed that special prayer that God wanted to hear. You're heaven bound, even while in the midst of a sinful lifestyle.

 

[Reformed]

Christians cannot be in a state of carnality. Christians can sin, but they are no longer sinners, positionally speaking. If a person is still fleshly (carnal), then they are not saved. John wrote:

1 John 1:5-7 5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

John's use of the word "walk" denotes a close, intimate fellowship. A Christian cannot walk in darkness, although he can commit acts that are associated with darkness. The difference is that the Christians sins while in the light. That is why sin in the life of a Christian is unnatural and should always bring with it guilt, shame, and subsequent repentance. If a professed Christian can sin with impunity, or if their life can be defined by their persistent and unrepentant sin, then they may be the one Paul is speaking to:

2 Corinthians 13:5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?