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Is Drinking Alcohol a Sin?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Baptist_Pastor/Theologian, Nov 2, 2006.

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  1. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Ok, I think now you are reaching as married couples and their beds are undefiled and junk food is not ever mentioned as a sin except to the health nuts that try to dietize scripture and say God had a dietary formula. (such sad non-sense)

    Though we are in a country where one of our greatest addictions is liquor and even in the world it is stigmatized and a stumbling stone to millions. However we are to do ALL we do to the Glory of God but if it cause one to stumble there is no glory anything we do. I DO promote abstaining from alcohol but I also know that it is not prohibited in moderation (but exactly is that - according to Paul to Timothy it is a VERY small moderation), also where it would not cause one to stumble, and for the purpose it was being drank at the time. There are many reasons in scripture not to drink IMO - Preists were forbidden to come new the house of God if they had or God would kill them. A Nazarite was one completely seperated unto God by a vow for a time but in that time forbidden to even touch a grape or raisen as it was associated with wine. But MY reason in the main for not drinking...

    I do not drink for the reason of the weaker brother.
    Types of meat and wine have always been at dispute so let us hold to the words of Paul here if nothing else.

    And here too:
    In the last days there shall comes scoffers, men who are lovers of THEMSELVES...
    It isn't about what we want but what will edify the body.
     
    #61 Allan, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
  2. mcdirector

    mcdirector Active Member

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    This will not be resolved until we get to Glory!

    There is already plenty of reading on this very subject right here on the BB. (and most people have already said what they've already said.)

    I still want to know if the SBC passed a similar resolution on tobacco.
     
    #62 mcdirector, Nov 3, 2006
  3. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Now where did I put that thread on coffee.....[​IMG]

    Sorry, couldn't resist.

    I agree with Bitsy, just go back 2 months and you will be inebriated with all the discussion that went on... I doubt few have changed their mind in 2 months... But if you have, then please carry on...
     
    #63 tinytim, Nov 3, 2006
  4. Pipedude

    Pipedude Active Member

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    :mad: Shhhsh!
     
    #64 Pipedude, Nov 3, 2006
  5. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Oh wow, Mr deep theological doctrine is back.
     
    #65 saturneptune, Nov 3, 2006
  6. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    It already has been resolved. Scripture condemns drunkeness and addiction, not consumption.
     
    #66 webdog, Nov 3, 2006
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    That wasn't my point. I was using the same flawed logic that since there are other alternatives, there is no need for it.
    There are many Christians who are offended by my wife wearing pants and me reading the NIV. We are not to appease legalism, and if it's legalism that causes a brother to stumble, that is between them and God.
    Not only is it not prohibited, our Lord drank and made it...and God even promoted it...
    Deu 14:24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there,
    Deu 14:25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses
    Deu 14:26 and spend the money for whatever you desire--oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.
    I agree to an extent, however personal like and dislikes is not what the context of that passage is. We all have preferences for food, drink, work, hobbies, clothes, etc. This isn't being a "lover of self". For the SBC to add a non biblical stance on a non essential issue is wrong. Personal convictions should not be force fed.

    Col 2:16 Therefore don't let anyone judge you in regard to food and drink or in the matter of a festival or a new moon or a sabbath day.

    Dale nailed it when he said...
    As believers we should let Scripture state what is sin. Here is a good list of Scriptural references to wine and other strong drink (would have been beer at the time)... http://wooga.drbacchus.com/bible/alcoholr.html
     
    #67 webdog, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
  8. Baptist_Pastor/Theologian

    Baptist_Pastor/Theologian New Member

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    If you were raised in an environment where your parents smoked cigarettes would that influence you to be a smoker? Would that make smoking anymore permissible? Our culture we were raised in does not define us. I have counseled many teens to rise above their raising.

    Perhaps the most irrelevant point of all. As disciples of Christ we are to put aside petty personal preferences and serve out of obedience. Helen, I like to sit around the house with my family back in Hattiesburg MS where I grew up, but the Lord has called me to be far away from my family in his service. If I as a pastor did what I liked all the time my life would be a real mess and so would my church.

    Yeah, well get some new friends. If you are not living the way you should because of peer pressure then get rid of the dead weight. What kind of friends do you have who cannot realistically understand as a minister of the gospel that you may abstain? You and your husband are ministers giving in to peer pressure? UNREAL!

    Do not tell me that you have been drinking and never been high! You are in no position to judge for yourself if you are high or not. A frog does not know that it is boiling to death if you raise the temperature at the rate of a degree every minute. Alcohol creeps up on you and by the time it has you it is too late. You have probably noticed the effects to some degree. If you feel any effects at all you are under the influence and you cannot drink alcohol and not feel at least some effect.

    Why does a minister of the gospel or a born again believer need a relaxant? Has not Christ promised to supply us with all our needs? Does not Christ give us the peace that surpasses all understanding? Did Christ not say do not worry or fear but in all things pray and God will supply all our needs? If you seek fulfillment from anything that Jesus otherwise could have supplied you that is by definition idolatry.

    Noah? Do you really want to bring Noah into this discussion? Look where drinking got Noah: "Noah began to be man of the soil, and he planted a vineyard. He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent." Moreover, his own children did something to or with him to the extent that Noah cursed Canaan for his part in the ordeal.

    The fact remains that the Bible does not prohibit alcohol, but the Bible also does not prohibit slavery. Do you want to suggest that we should not prohibit slavery?

    Money nor sex are evil. The love of money is what is evil. Perversion is what makes sex immoral.

    However, I must say Helen that I am very disappointed by your self-centered approach to drinking.

    The Bible warns us to avoid the appearance of evil (1 Thess. 5:22).

    The Bible also warns about causing an immature believer or a literal child from stumbling, "but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin,it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." (Matt. 18:6)

    Moreover, what fellowship does light have darkness? Alcohol is responsible for the rape and murder of numerous women every year. Alcohol is responsible for the death of innocent children every year through dwi and abuse. Alcohol is responsible for numerous failed marriages, businesses, and destroys the lives of those who abuse and consume it.

    As Christians our role is to live lives of holiness and purity. If there is any doubt about whether something is right, we should err on the side of caution. To be honest with you I simply find your reasons for drinking alcohol to be in poor 'taste.'

    I will leave you with a story that a friend of mine who is an international missionary relayed to me just the other day.

     
    #68 Baptist_Pastor/Theologian, Nov 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
  9. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    AMEN B_PT!
    I couldn't agree more.

    What has happened to standards of holiness?
     
    #69 av1611jim, Nov 3, 2006
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    247 references to alcohol in the Bible. The standards are right there. The problem arises in discernment and eisegesis.
     
    #70 webdog, Nov 3, 2006
  11. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    THey couldn't otherwise they would have to get rid of the Spurgeon bust at SWBTS. However the painting of Carroll has the cigar painted out.

    Most will not condemn what is already in their back yard. Gotta get the tobacco revenue form those in Kentucky.

    Remember the days when there was a cloud of smoke above the deacons in between Sunday School and church? I don't it was because of a sacrifice being offered.

    Every generation has their pet sins. Didn't you know that today someone who shot and killed another could pastor a church but not a divorced man?
     
    #71 gb93433, Nov 3, 2006
  12. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    If your Bible teaches you that lie, then you need a new Bible. As has been proven in the past, the wine Christ made at the wedding feast could in no way have been alcoholic wine.

    Also, nowhere in Scripture does the Lord drink alcoholic wine.
     
    #72 standingfirminChrist, Nov 4, 2006
  13. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    No. The SBC has not so far as to "urge that no one be elected to serve as a trustee or member of any entity or committee of the Southern Baptist Convention" who uses tobacco. Tobacco use is discouraged, but the SBC does not bar a tobacco user from holding a convention office.

    The pertinent 1984 resolution states:

    "That we encourage parents by personal example to teach abstinence from cigarette smoking; and

    ... That our churches, associations, state conventions, and the Southern Baptist Convention take leadership in encouraging our people, pastors, and SBC leaders to refrain from using tobacco in any form, including cigarettes; and

    ... That we encourage Southern Baptists presently engaged in the growing of tobacco, which has no use except for cigarettes and related products, to cease such agriculture and, where feasible, to switch to another cash crop in order to make such products less accessible; and

    ...That we encourage the Congress and Senate to terminate all agricultural funding and subsidies to those who plant, grow, or sell any tobacco products."

    (The convention in 1988 also castigated the U.S. government for attempting to export both alcohol and tobacco.)
     
    #73 rsr, Nov 4, 2006
  14. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Let’s come to our senses!

    The discussion about alcohol is indeed intriguing and it is quite interesting to see what many of you have said. There have been good arguments and there have been the ridiculous arguments.

    Let me say that the argument that wine in the New Testament was non-alcoholic is just plain silly. The Greek word means wine…not something else. It is most likely the wine was cut with water. Wine was used to “purify” water because when you mix alcoholic wine with not-so-pure water (like the water of the first-century) the alcohol killed the germs and you didn’t have diarrhea quite so often.

    Now, as to the matter of whether it is a sin to drink or not:

    If we, as Christians, set to live our life by the Scripture, we must seek to see what it actually says on any given matter. When it comes to alcohol there are two issues:

    1) Is it permissible? The answer is yes. Nowhere in Scripture is it said that drinking is a sin, except for someone who took a Nazarite vow, like Sampson. However, the issue is getting drunk. In many places it condemns getting drunk, this is without much debate.

    2) Is it prudent? The answer is no. While we are not forbidden to drink we must understand that our actions can and do effect other people. We must take seriously Paul’s admonition not to cause a brother [or sister] to stumble.

    Alcohol itself is not the problem—if this were the case, a Christian could not take Nyquil. The abuse of alcohol is the problem.

    People on both sides of this issue err in two ways that are, I dare say, sinful.

    The Teetotaler Error argues: I see drinking as wrong, therefore it is wrong for everyone. This view fails to take into account true Christian liberty. Since the Bible does not forbid it, we are free to partake.

    HOWVER!

    The “I have the liberty to….” Error argues: Since I have the liberty to do this or that, in this case drink alcohol, I am entitled to ___________ .

    Both sides have their grave errors. Neither side is Scriptural.

    What is the best way to handle this? As Christians we must be willing to give up our liberty for the sake of our fellow believers. Since this is the case we must be willing to not drink alcohol if it is going to cause a brother or sister to stumble. For this reason, I do not drink, although I have the freedom to drink.

    You know the whole SBC issue could have been helped by a little “Truth In Labeling.” Had the resolution stated that we wanted to hold ourselves to a higher standard than the world, I could have easily supported the resolution.

    More latter, gotta run for now

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
    #74 The Archangel, Nov 4, 2006
  15. mcdirector

    mcdirector Active Member

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    Yo Archangel!

    This caught my eye:
    Permissible but NOT Prudent

    nice phrase.
     
    #75 mcdirector, Nov 4, 2006
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Continue to believe that lie if you wish. Luke 7:33-35 is as clear as can be, and the wine the Lord made was the "best"...the same "best" wine the Lord of Hosts serves in Isaiah 25:6...WELL AGED. Only a legalist can twist those plain Scriptures around to say they are non alcoholic.
     
    #76 webdog, Nov 4, 2006
  17. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Hey, something we finally agree on, webdog!! The context makes it plain that it was alcoholic wine, given the comment that most people serve the best wine first, and then bring out the poorer quality wine after people have had too much [OF THE BEST WINE] to drink to know the difference.

    Abuse of alcohol is bad. Drunkenness is bad. Wine itself isn't bad. In fact, the alcohol purifies the wine of the bacteria that so often represents sin.
     
    #77 npetreley, Nov 4, 2006
  18. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Well aged does not make it alcoholic. I have eaten well aged cheese. Does that mean it is alcoholic? NO!

    The truth is, if Christ had made or drank alcoholic wine or given alcoholic wine to the wedding guests at Cana, then He would not have been the sinless sacrifice He came to earth to be.

    Only a liberal can twist those plain Scriptures around to say they are alcoholic.
     
    #78 standingfirminChrist, Nov 4, 2006
  19. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    You are saying Christ sinned? Wow! Watch out for lightening.
     
    #79 reformedbeliever, Nov 4, 2006
  20. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    OH, come on... you know time will not produce alcohol in cheese, but it will produce alcohol in grape juice...

    SFIC, you can do better than that... you are off your game for some reason...
     
    #80 tinytim, Nov 4, 2006
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