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Is Drinking Wine Wrong??
- Thread starter TaliOrlando
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What is it with you and your rudeness. That type of offensive language can easily be edited, and with a simple search enough of it can be found to get you banned. Watch your step from here on in. Consider that your first warning.Alcott said:
I have asked a simple question. If you are not able to answer it then say so. If you are able to answer then do so. Otherwise bow out of this discussion and perhaps out of BB altogether. There arer other boards that "might" welcome your type of rudeness, but I doubt it.
DHK
The bread of the Passover meal was unleavened because God had told the Israelites to make a meal that would be able to be consumed quickly. Leaven would take too long to make bread. Wine, however, was already made and leaven is a naturally occuring thing in grapes so the wine at one point had leaven in it. However, once the wine is fermented, the leaven is killed off (that is the sediment in some wines at the bottom - the dead yeast) hence, wine has no leaven if it is aged yet grape juice DOES have leaven. So it would have to be wine if leaven is sinful.
Two points,
It is a great overgeneralization to jump the concept of "leavened bread" over to "leavened grape juice". It may be the same fermentation proces, but the scriptural usage regarding passover or "decay and corruption" clearly addresses bread, not grapes as being "leavened" or "unleavened".
As was pointed out, grapes naturally have yeast in them. I don't think there is or was any way to remove every cell of yeast from them. So this was not considered "leaven". It couldn't, else, no grapes would be allowed period. Only yeast added to bread counted.
Two, the leaven was a specific part of the parable, not the broom. Clearly, the analogy is something that starts out small and grows until it is large, just like the mustard seed. So the leaven in that case cannot be relegated to the status of a nondescript broom used in another parable.
It is a great overgeneralization to jump the concept of "leavened bread" over to "leavened grape juice". It may be the same fermentation proces, but the scriptural usage regarding passover or "decay and corruption" clearly addresses bread, not grapes as being "leavened" or "unleavened".
As was pointed out, grapes naturally have yeast in them. I don't think there is or was any way to remove every cell of yeast from them. So this was not considered "leaven". It couldn't, else, no grapes would be allowed period. Only yeast added to bread counted.
Two, the leaven was a specific part of the parable, not the broom. Clearly, the analogy is something that starts out small and grows until it is large, just like the mustard seed. So the leaven in that case cannot be relegated to the status of a nondescript broom used in another parable.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Why would God want us to eat bread made without leaven and drink wine made with leaven?
That makes about as much sense as eating half a double chocolate fudge cake and drinking a diet coke.
That makes about as much sense as eating half a double chocolate fudge cake and drinking a diet coke.
David Michael Harris
Active Member
TaliOrlando said:
No it is not wrong to drink wine, but like anger it can lead you into sin. We have a advocate though if we fall into sin.
Drunkeness will ruin you, and the High Priesthood of the Lord Jesus Christ is not to be abused as Israel did in the past to it's priesthood.
God disciplines those He loves and He knows those who are His.
David
One point at a time.Eric B said:
Where in history do you find the church, of any denomination, using anything but "unleavened bread" as one of the elements for the Lord's Supper. You don't. It has always been used, just as it was in the Passover, the Last Supper, and every Communion Service since. Traditionally that has been the case.
This is an unneeded techincality. Even Solomon could refute it. Look not upon the wine when it turns itself aright. When it starts to ferment or go bad; when the yeast starts to take action upon the juice and juice is no longer juice but a corrupted juice called wine, then don't even look at it much less drink it.
No. As the broom represented a broom, yeast in this parable represents yeast and that is all. A parable has but one central teaching. This is about the growth of the Kingdom of God. Because the Lord used the household item of yeast is irrelevant. Because the woman swept behind the door does not mean she swept behind Jesus, although Jesus is the Door elshwere in the Scriptures. You can't read everything into the parable. Jesus is speaking of the growth of the Kingdom. Yeast is yeast. It is used in the parable as something that grows at a rapid rate. You read too much into the parable.
DHK
I never questioned whether unleavened bread was used. (BTW, there are churches that use leavened bread. IIRC, the EOC might be one of them).DHK said:
But the bread wasn't the point. The point was that the Bible does not speak of a need for "unleavened grapes"
Still, the point is, you tried to claim that there is to be no leaven in the grapes as with the bread, but it has been shown that the yeast lives in the UNfermented grapes (where they are living and doing the fermentation), not in the fermented wine (where they have all finished the process and died). You all have not answered this point.
The broom is not "represented" at all! It is not even mentioned; only implied. The point of that parable is not the cleaning process, but only the value of the coin. In the parable of the leaven, the leaven is what causes the lump to grow. If that parable simply said "a lump of bread that just grew" without mentioning leaven, you would have a bit more of a point.
The only point they are trying to make here is that leaven does figure positively in this instance (whether it is the central point or not).
I'm sorry, but you are the one reading too much into things, to try to make an issue for comparison of a broom that is not even discussed in a different parable, and then even going further than that, with "sweeping behind a door", which is not even mentioned at all.
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read the scriptures.
its says that the kingdom of God is likened unto leaven.
Matthew 13:33 - Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
the kingdom of heaven is likened unto leaven (which obviously doesn't just represent leaven. doh!) which a woman took (the church? the bridegroom thing?) and hid in three measures of meal (why did she have to hide the leaven? go deeper then "cause leaven is bad") till the whole was leavened (what does the 'whole' represent?)
tear it apart. jeepers. leaven represents leaven in a parable comparing the kingdom to leaven. hahaha.
but - to understand this parable - you have to understand the parable of the soils. so go at it.
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We warn our children not to experiment with MJ, yet we drink wine "in moderation." We tell our children that the "high" experienced with MJ will lead them to experiment to other drugs. Yet we don't apply that precaution to wine. Why drink wine at all? Why does one want alcohol in a glass of juice? What's its purpose for being in there? Is it classy? Do we feel more noble? Upper class? Some will say "I like the taste." You can say the same about every juice known to man. Why add alcohol? Would you go to a Christian gathering where wine (with alcohol) was served? I wouldn't.
i would go to a gathering where wine was served.
simply because i like specialty drinks.
dont like wine much. but a gathering that has wine is bound to have lots of other beverages. if they dont - you know they're somewhat limited and that the gathering isn't that expensive.
haha. like it matters. oh well.
but i like specialty drinks. without alcohol. (bailey's in hot chocolate is all i'll have. once a year - cause it tastes great.
)
drinks like virgin pina coloda's - oh so amazing!
simply because i like specialty drinks.
dont like wine much. but a gathering that has wine is bound to have lots of other beverages. if they dont - you know they're somewhat limited and that the gathering isn't that expensive.
haha. like it matters. oh well.
but i like specialty drinks. without alcohol. (bailey's in hot chocolate is all i'll have. once a year - cause it tastes great.
)drinks like virgin pina coloda's - oh so amazing!
Brother Bob
New Member
Do you mean like a gallon?
standingfirminChrist
New Member
if a host invites you to a function and he or she is serving alcohol, you can bet your bottom dollar it is not a christian event.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
NO, according to the Word of God that says fermented wine is to be avoided.
When i use alcohol it is because it is a faster pain reliever than the scrpts the doc gives me. and HE is the one who told me to use wine, or a wine cooler rather than the scripts in the first place. He told me, when a spasm comes on sudden, as they most often do, a glass of wine or a wine cooler will ease it and allow the nerves to relax, and if I choose the pain meds route, i will have to take them in some form everyday for the rest of my life, to keep them at a level needed to keep the nerves quiet. To me a wine cooler that works faster and that I do not need constantly, is a much better deal. Paul thought so too apparently.genesis12 said:
Yes I would go and have gone places where Christians drink. Being an adult I can decide if I want to drink or not and being around others who choose to does not mean I must, or will, though I can if i wish.
I have self control in this area. I lack it in others, and I sin when I lose it in those areas, just as folks who get drunk sin by not having it in this area.
* MJ is my dh's name! LOL*
Depends what form the alcohol is in SFIC.
you are so against it - and think it is sin.
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i can say the same. i believe eating pork is sin - because the scriptures clearly say that swine is unclean and unfit to eat.
and that you're going to hell if you eat any of it because God simply does not want us to eat swine.
do you eat pork? shellfish?
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christians pick and choose what they want to hear. they say not to follow all the law - then go and say wine is an abonination according to the OT - which is where all the law is.
round and round we go - im gettin dizzy. somebody pull over the van - im going to upchuck.
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so what things that leviticus condemns do you eat? hmm?
you'll probably say you dont eat any of them.
how about anybody else?
you are so against it - and think it is sin.
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i can say the same. i believe eating pork is sin - because the scriptures clearly say that swine is unclean and unfit to eat.
and that you're going to hell if you eat any of it because God simply does not want us to eat swine.
do you eat pork? shellfish?
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christians pick and choose what they want to hear. they say not to follow all the law - then go and say wine is an abonination according to the OT - which is where all the law is.
round and round we go - im gettin dizzy. somebody pull over the van - im going to upchuck.
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so what things that leviticus condemns do you eat? hmm?
you'll probably say you dont eat any of them.
how about anybody else?
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