Is Drinking Wine Wrong??

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

There's nothing wrong with wine being drunk; and there's nothing wrong in a person who drinks wine. But there's nothing right in a drunkard. Now the hypocrites won't blame the culpret, so make wine the drunkard's fall.

I would agree with you if you were speaking of 'tirosh' a non-alcoholic wine. But Solomon warned not to have anything to do with 'yayin' the alcoholic wine.

Proverbs 23:31 tells us

Proverbs 23:31 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

As was pointed out several weeks ago in another thread by another poster, the word 'look' in that verse is the Hebrew word ra'ah. It means 'do not have anything to do with, don't experience.'

In order to drink alcoholic beverage, one has to have experience with it. Thereby going against God's Word.

 

[DeeJay]

Try this site on modern day winemaking--you will see that yeast IS a very necessary catalyst for winemaking--without the yeast, there is NO fermentation, and no fermentation means there is NO alcohol to make one drunk.

I dont need to try any sight. I make wine and have made it both with added yeast and wild yeast. To make good wine with wild yeast the vineyards need to be very very old and the grapes are expensive. But you can make an avg. tasting wild yeast wine with any quality grapes.

Your right yeast is necessary for fermentation. But it does not need to be added. It can be added but you must kill the wild yeast first. The yeast on the skin of a grape is sufficent for fermentation.

Added yeast is good for useing avg. grapes and makeing very quality wine.

In case you are wondering why the vineyards need to be old. They compost the grape skins after they are crushed and put them back into the soil. After centeries the yeast put back into the soil becomes the predominont yeast in the growing grapes. So instead of several types of yeast on a grape you have mostly only one.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I would agree with you if you were speaking of 'tirosh' a non-alcoholic wine. But Solomon warned not to have anything to do with 'yayin' the alcoholic wine.

Proverbs 23:31 tells us

As was pointed out several weeks ago in another thread by another poster, the word 'look' in that verse is the Hebrew word ra'ah. It means 'do not have anything to do with, don't experience.'

In order to drink alcoholic beverage, one has to have experience with it. Thereby going against God's Word.

You too easily teaches what is 'God's Word' and what not - making difference between two words for the same thing. What you are dealing with actually is man's words - 'language'.

 

[DeeJay]

Wild yeast found on the skin of a grape is sufficent to ferment wine. Yeast can be added but wine can be made with out adding any yeast.

http://www.enologyinternational.com/yeast/wildyeast.html

GOING WILD: WILD YEAST IN WINEMAKING
Jordan P. Ross

For many years, a group of California winemakers have been practicing a fermentation technique known as “indigenous yeast” fermentation and making consistently excellent wine. Why all of a sudden has this technique become a buzzword in the wine press and why have other winemakers recently begun experimenting with this technique?

Alan Tenscher, Senior Winemaker at Franciscan Vineyards comments, “I see a trend toward a more natural way of making wine which starts in the vineyard with organic grapegrowing and extends to minimal handling of the wine. The use of wild yeast, from one perspective puts one in that same camp. But on the other hand, there is a group of winemakers out there who are looking for any technique that will help them improve wine quality. The use of wild yeast is a tool to create complexity.”

The trend Tenscher observes has been popularized by influential wine critics who are proponents of wines made with more natural, less interventionist techniques. Indigenous yeast fermentations fall into this category because the vineyard’s native yeast start the fermentation naturally in contrast to the common California, and in recent years European, practice of adding yeast to start the fermentation.

 

[Taufgesinnter]

Is drinking wine wrong?

Your thoughts!!!! Some say its not and some say it is!!!! Whats you stand on this???

Of course not! Otherwise Jesus wouldn't have done it. He also wouldn't have made so much of it. And He wouldn't have required us to consecrate it and drink of the cup in His Supper, either. Furthermore, the apostle Paul wouldn't have explicitly said that it's all right to drink wine, if it were wrong to do.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Of course not! Otherwise Jesus wouldn't have done it. He also wouldn't have made so much of it. And He wouldn't have required us to consecrate it and drink of the cup in His Supper, either. Furthermore, the apostle Paul wouldn't have explicitly said that it's all right to drink wine, if it were wrong to do.

Excuse me? The Bible does not say the wine Jesus created was fermented in any way, nor does it say that it was created in a great quantity.

Nor does the Bible say the wine was fermented at the Last Supper account. As a matter of fact, Christ could not have drank a fermented wine else He would not have been the sinless and spotless Lamb.

Where does Paul tell us to drink fermented wine?

Go back and study more.

 

[mojoala]

Excuse me? The Bible does not say the wine Jesus created was fermented in any way, nor does it say that it was created in a great quantity.

Nor does the Bible say the wine was fermented at the Last Supper account. As a matter of fact, Christ could not have drank a fermented wine else He would not have been the sinless and spotless Lamb.

Where does Paul tell us to drink fermented wine?

More circular arguments:

Excuse me? The Bible does not say the wine Jesus created was NOT fermented in any way, nor does it say that it was created in a great quantity. IT DOESN'T? HE CREATED ENOUGH FOR A WEDDING PARTY.

Nor does the Bible say the wine was NOT fermented at the Last Supper account.

As a matter of fact, Christ could not have drank a fermented wine else He would not have been the sinless and spotless Lamb. NOT TRUE only your interpretation that all wine was without alcohol.

Where does Paul tell us to NOT drink fermented wine?

MATTER OF FACT WHY ARE YOU RELYING UPON PAUL TO TELL YOU? YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING TO JESUS.

 

[DeeJay]

Nor does the Bible say the wine was fermented at the Last Supper account. As a matter of fact, Christ could not have drank a fermented wine else He would not have been the sinless and spotless Lamb.

Go back and study more.

The wine at the last supper was either fermented of full of leaven. The Bible clearly says that it was not full of leaven so that makes it fermented.

Where, besides your predecided predudices, does it say that Jesus could not have been sinless and spotless if he drank wine.

Go back and study more.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

show me where the Bible clearly shows it was fermented wine at the Last Supper. only thing I find there is 'fruit of the vine.' Why would Jesus use the word wine in other instances and not here? The answer is simple, that which is in the cup is not fermented


Get back to your books and study to show yourself approved unto God instead of man.

 

[DeeJay]

show me where the Bible clearly shows it was fermented wine at the Last Supper. only thing I find there is 'fruit of the vine.' Why would Jesus use the word wine in other instances and not here? The answer is simple, that which is in the cup is not fermented


Get back to your books and study to show yourself approved unto God instead of man.

I guess you will not find it as long as you do not study the Bible as a whole.

Let me ask you this. Were Jewish people allowed to drink or eat leaven during the passover? Were they allowed to have leaven in their houses?

Your last sentences are very arrogent and pridefull. I guess if I disagree with you that makes me wrong. Why, because you are always right and have nothing to learn. Is is just possable you are wrong and can learn.

 

[mojoala]

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

It is inconclusive whether it was fermented or not.
It is inconclusive with respect to the Greek.

FRUIT
G1081
γέννημα
gennēma
ghen'-nay-mah
From G1080; offspring; by analogy produce (literally or figuratively): - fruit, generation.

VINE
G288
ἄμπελος
ampelos
am'-pel-os
Probably from the base of G297 and that of G257; a vine (as coiling about a support): - vine.

Neither one implies fermentation nor does it imply non-fermentation.

As for the primary definition that is used: offspring. It could be new offspring or aged offspring. Or it could be fermented version of the offspring.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

If one goes into the Old Testament and studies out the wines found there, one will see that 'tirosh' is unfermented fruit of the vine. This is the same fruit of the vine that Jesus is speaking of at the Last Supper account. He did not call it wine, but fruit of the vine.

Nowhere in scripture is fermented wine described as the fruit of the vine.

Noah? He made wine from the vine. He processed the wine with fermentation and got drunk.

Fermented wine is something man-made. Fruit of the vine is from God.

Arrogant? Why? Because I stand on the truth of God's Word? Because I step on other people's beliefs that they can partake of that which is a result of decay?

They persecuted the prophets before me, bring it on. I am blessed in Christ no matter what man may think of me.

 

[Burrito Breath]

Drinkin' wine okey dokey

Drinkin' wine okey dokey as long as it's religious wine.

I fine a glass of "Blue Nun" be stremely effective in helping work thru dat darn rosary.

Stick wid the religious vino; U Can't go wrong!

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Drinkin' wine okey dokey as long as it's religious wine.

I fine a glass of "Blue Nun" be stremely effective in helping work thru dat darn rosary.

Stick wid the religious vino; U Can't go wrong!

Religion leads many to hell. Stay away from all wine... especially wine that has nun in it's name.

 

[gekko]

ROMANS 14 - READ IT - AND THIS ISSUE SHOULD BE RESOLVED.

God Bless

 

[webdog]

Context?

The Bible says neither Aaron or his sons were to drink fermented beverages in the tabernacle of the congregation. We are said to be sons in Hebrews. Not just the pastors, but all believers. As sons, we are not to partake of fermented beverages... especially in the communion.

How's that for context.

Don't try to justify sin by twisting the scripture.

Who's twisting the Scriptures? Read Luke 7:33-35. Case closed.

 

[webdog]

Now since you have been properly schooled, I believe an apology is in order.

Properly schooled? I said yeast doesn't make you drunk...alcohol does. You don't need "schooling" to understand that. If you believe yeast makes you drunk, go down to the grocery store buy up as much yeast as you can afford, mix it with water and drink as much as you can. Let's see if you really do get drunk. In order to "school" someone, one must be properly "schooled" to begin with

 

[Taufgesinnter]

ROMANS 14 - READ IT - AND THIS ISSUE SHOULD BE RESOLVED.

God Bless

AMEN!! AMEN!! AMEN!!

 

[annsni]

Well, let me in on my struggle with this. I do not believe it is wrong to drink wine - it is clearly wrong in Scripture to get drunk.

I like a nice glass of wine with a nice dinner - or a nice margharita with a Mexican dinner.

DH is a pastor working with the college ministry. We have decided to not drink (although we use alcohol in our cooking - can't beat it!) and haven't done so in some time. We went out for dinner at an awesome Mexican restaurant for our 22nd anniversary of our getting engaged. We used to go to this place MANY times and used to get a margharita to split (yum!!). Well, I was SOOO tempted to order it but DH didn't want me to and I followed his wishes. Just as our dinner came (and we'd be enjoying that margharita), a family came up to us to say 'hi' - one of our deacons, his wife (they'd be OK with the drink) and their college-age son and a friend of his! They wanted to know more about the college ministry - when it is, what we're doing, etc. They were so excited to come!

Now, it would not have been wrong for us to have that drink but the college aged kids have such a struggle with alcohol (legal in NY is 21) and we're working at not causing a brother to stumble by giving up our liberty to drink to better minister to them.

Soooo, in all of that, it's OK to drink a glass of wine. What is NOT good is to be 'in your face' about it and possibly cause another to stumble. We need to be careful in our testimony and ministry and if drinking a glass of wine will diminish that ministry, it's best to step away from it and take it as something that is not good for us.

I understand some people abstaining from alcohol for their own reasons. What is NOT good is to step in and make law something that's not law in Scriptures.

Ann

 

[Taufgesinnter]

I don't need to 'study more'

Excuse me? The Bible does not say the wine Jesus created was fermented in any way, nor does it say that it was created in a great quantity.

Nor does the Bible say the wine was fermented at the Last Supper account. As a matter of fact, Christ could not have drank a fermented wine else He would not have been the sinless and spotless Lamb.

Where does Paul tell us to drink fermented wine?

Go back and study more.

"Unfermented grape juice is a very difficult thing to keep without the aid of modern antiseptic precautions, and its preservation in the warm and not overly clean conditions of ancient Palestine is impossible (p.3086)."--ISBE

"[W]e can conclude with a fair degree of certainty that the fruit of the vine used at the institution of the Lord's Supper was a mixture of three parts water to one part wine."--Robert H. Stein: "Wine-Drinking In New Testament Times," in Christianity Today, June 20, 1975.

The word for what Jesus transformed water into in John 2 is the same word used by Paul in Romans 14 (and Ephesians 5)--oinos. Other than a pharisaical, preconceived bias against alcohol in and of itself, what would make anyone believe that the oinos Paul said was OK to drink in Romans was a different beverage than the oinos in Ephesians he cautioned against drinking to the point of drunkenness, and/or was a different beverage than that made by Jesus at Cana? (And over 120 gallons of wine seems like a lot to me, since I'm essentially a non-drinker--but I won't, in direct defiance of God's Word, judge anyone for going ahead and having some alcohol if they don't get drunk on it.)



On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine—
the best of meats and the finest of wines. (Isa. 25:6, NIV)



OK, you explain it, then, regarding the Last Supper. Without asserting a miracle, since none is recorded, how, nearly six months after the grape harvest in Palestine, at a time of year and a climate where even fresh-pressed grape juice would have fermented inside of two days, did they get grape juice, when nobody else in that part of the world had access to it until the invention of Welch's pasteurization process in the late 1800s?

It's those with an axe to grind about alcohol, despite God's explicit command not to judge a brother for drinking wine, who cannot see in these passages the presence of alcohol. What axe do I have to grind? Considering I don't like the taste of wine as a beverage, never buy it at a store, never order it in a restaurant, and have never been even close to drunk in my entire life--I guess it would have to be proper exegesis of Scripture.

"Go back and study more"? Hmm, good advice...