Featured Is effeminacy a problem?

Gay or not gay has nothing to do with this conversation.

The point is not whether or not a man who behaves effeminately is gay.

The question is whether or not it is ok for a man to be effeminate even if he is not gay.

 

I would suggest that the way men walk, talk and move should be distinct from the way women and girls do these things.

I would suggest that it is more of a struggle for some men to be distinct from women in the way they do these things, but that they ought to put forth an effort to be masculine and not feminine.

I would suggest that it is more of a struggle for some men to control their temper than for others. Should we therefore conclude that these men should just be who they are and not put forth the effort to be patient with others?

Just so, a man who struggles with masculinity ought to put forth the effort to be masculine.

And I would suggest that making excuses for a man who is feminine lets him off the hook concerning his responsibility to be masculine just like making excuses for men who are short tempered causes them to feel less inclined to be what they ought to be.

I would suggest that none of us just throw up our hands and say, "Let everybody be whatever they want to be as long as they don't hurt anybody else! If a woman behaves butch- GREAT! If a man is very girly- WONDERFUL! Ka Sara Sara!"

I would suggest that fathers teach their boys to be manly and that mothers teach their girls to be feminine.

 

Good questions.

First of all, culture does have some say in the way we define femininity and masculinity. It does not have ALL of the say, mind you, but it does have some of the say. This is clear in Scripture.

Paul told the Corinthians that men should not have long hair and women should have long hair and he cited culture as his justification for this.
As most of us know, the point Paul was making was not that women should never cut their hair short in any age and any place. The point was that in that culture long hair represented something as well as short hair and the Corinthian Christians should observe what those things represented appropriately.

This is one of numerous examples where Scripture recognizes that contemporary culture has SOME say in how we define many things.

Since the attire of our nation's forefathers with the ruffles and tights, etc... was considered to be perfectly manly in that culture at that time, then their attire was appropriately masculine.

2. Note that I have not one time said anything about the way people dress from the OP to this post. I have avoided this on purpose.

3. There are characteristics of men and women that are distinctive to each sex in every culture.
Men and women are built very differently by design of our Maker.

The physique of men and women are very different. This difference has much to do with how we walk and talk and move.
Child bearing hips vs broad shoulders, delicacy vs ruggedness, beauty vs strength, estrogen vs testosterone- these are universal; they traverse all cultures. It is not that women cannot be strong, for example, but it is that they are not marked for their physical strength among the sexes. These are complimentary distinctions. They are part of the Maker's brilliant and benevolent design.

They translate to a particular distinctness in the way we walk and talk and move. The muscularity and density of the joints is different. The proportionality of the figure is different by God's intentional design.

Men and women should EMBRACE this distinctness as part of the wisdom of God as an act of submission to him concerning the roles he evidently assigned AND as an act of worship to Him for his brilliance and goodness in his creation.

I do think that when women seek to be as strong as men and men seek to be as beautiful as women that it is rebellion against the wisdom of God. I think when a man has an excessive concern with personal beauty, he is saying that he does not like the roll in this world that God designed him for. I think that when a woman has an excessive concern with being tough and strong then she is saying she opposes the design of the Maker for her.

Everything we do communicates something. We communicate with facial expressions, postures, movement, etc... The way a man walks communicates something, for example. A man can communicate confidence, arrogance, humility, insecurity, anger, happiness and all kinds of other things simply by the way he carries himself when he walks.

When he walks in a way that is distinctly masculine he communicates a satisfaction in the Maker's design of him as a man. This is true of how he talks, moves, etc... as well.

The same is true with a women.

 

Only God can see the heart. We CANNOT look at the heart.
The heart is the root of the tree beneath the surface. The actions are the fruit of the tree above the surface.

The fruit of the tree reveals the root of the tree to those who cannot see it.

It is generally true that the heart and the actions are one and the same.

If in the heart there is a sincere embrace of God's designed roll for a person, it will manifest itself in their actions.

For example, in my heart I have embraced God's assigned roll for me as a preacher. That heart embrace plays out in my actions- I preach regularly.

If a man embraces his God assigned roll as a father in his heart it will manifest itself in his care for his children. His voluntary absenteeism is evidence that he is unwilling to accept the roll God assigned him as a father. His actions, more than his words COMMUNICATE what is in his heart. We don't just get to say, "You don't know his heart- don't judge him! Look at his heart- not how he behaves."

This is equally true of femininity and masculinity. Masculinity is some of the fruit of heart acceptance of God's assigned roll of manhood. Femininity is some of the fruit of heart acceptance of God's assigned roll of womanhood.

Are there exceptions? To almost EVERYTHING- certainly there are.

There are hermaphrodites- people born with male and female parts.

There are quadriplegics whose physical condition renders them totally incapable of communicating by their movement a glad acceptance of God's assigned roll for them.

Are there women who have to work much harder than other women at being feminine? Certainly. Should they try? That's the crux of this conversation. I think the answer is a big ABSOLUTELY.

Should we help young men and ladies in our ministries to embrace the distinctives of the sexes which God assigned them? Absolutely.

Should we just brush this whole issue off and pretend that a basically gender neutral society is just fine? Absolutely NOT!

We should teach and celebrate manliness in men- especially young men.

We should teach and celebrate femininity in women- especially young women.

 

Your exterminator should seek to be feminine and should avoid being manly. She cannot control the breadth of her shoulders any more than a hermaphrodite can control his features. But she should not be given a pass to be just as manly as she pleases. This is especially true if her shoulders are broad because she has made them that way herself by taking on manly tasks.

We don't give arrogance a pass just because that may be a persons natural disposition. Neither should we accept effeminacy in men or manliness in women.

We lovingly guide people to be what God commands because he knows best.

By the way, Wally Cox has been largely rumored to have been gay in the closet. He may not have been gay, but the fact that it was an issue is more reason for Christian men to seek to behave distinctively masculine.

 

That's not true. It is not just being the spiritual head of the home that the Bible uses to define manhood.

Outward appearance matters. The Bible is full of exhortations to give attendance to how we live before the eyes of the world.

God.

I am saying that Christian women ought to embrace femininity and avoid masculinity.
How ANYONE could disagree with that is beyond me.

You can be small and masculine. I've said nothing that would give any thoughtful reader this impression.

I made it very clear by comparing it to arrogance. Do you give arrogance a free pass?

Are you giving ME a free pass right now or are you challenging my thinking?
If you followed your own philosophy here then you would not have even written this post. You ought to just be a friend to me and accept me AS IS without contradicting me in any way.

That's the issue. All people should accept the rolls God made them to fill.

If God made a person a man, then he should seek to be masculine.
If God made a person a woman, then she should seek to be feminine.

Dressing is not the only way a man can cause himself to appear feminine. Dressing is not all that matters.

He should no more seek to walk, talk and move like a woman than he should seek to dress like a woman.

He ought to be masculine in the way he dresses AND the way he walks, talks, etc...

He should avoid appearing feminine, not just in his dress, but in these other ways as well.

WHO could argue that there is not a particular way that one walks and talks, for examples, which is considered feminine or masculine?

A Christian man should should seek to be masculine like God made him to be.

 

You're not paying attention.

Did you not read where I said that she can no more control the breadth of her shoulders than a hermaphrodite can control his features?

That's not true either. We should care about whether or not we are giving people ammunition for rumors. How we appear before the eyes of the world is EXTREMELY important.

And as for listening to rumors- if a rumor comes to your attention that your heart doctor has been intentionally killing patients under surgery and you are scheduled to be under his knife next week- are you going to "immediately ignore and dismiss it"?

Rumors are not always "painful gossip." OFTEN times they are matters that we ABSOLUTELY should investigate.

I mean that you should not conclude in your own heart that manliness in a woman is perfectly fine in the eyes of God.

You need a God-centered world view in which you believe people ought to seek to be what God made them to be.

If God made a person a man then he ought to seek to be manly.

As much as is reasonably possible he ought to walk, talk and behave like a man.

If he'd rather embrace walking and talking and acting like a woman- it ought to be a problem for you- even if he is a heterosexual.

That does not mean that you have to confront him, but it means that you, within yourself, believe that masculinity and femininity are not insignificant matters.

That's why I started the thread. I asked in the OP "Is effeminacy a problem?"

I certainly expected that some people would say it is a "gnat" issue that does not merit any attention.
I think it is tragic that so many Christian people feel that way today.

What elephant am I swallowing?