Is faith alone enough to save?

[AresMan]

We are justified by faith, yes. Romans 5 tells us this. But that faith is an ative faith, it is not a dead faith. There must be works to show. I used an analogy earlier of making a statement about a new chair holding me up. If I never use that chair by sitting in it, the statement is a dead statement.

Ok. Great. If works must be present to be "saving faith," what works would those be. Can you be specific? If you can't tell me exactly what works are required, can I truly have absolute 100% assurance of salvation, when I don't know the future? Is salvation really supposed to be some "probably," "I certainly hope so," and "I guess I show it enough, but this guy is a lot better, and this other guy is a lot worse, so where do I stand?" What is the standard for "enough" to be considered saved?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Ares,

Just saying I believe is not enough to save anyone. The devils also believe and tremble, yet they are not, nor can they ever be saved.

Jesus said many would profess 'wonderful works', and yet He would say, 'I never knew you'.

There are to be works, but they must be His works, not our own.

 

[AresMan]

Just saying I believe is not enough to save anyone.

I never said saying "I believe" does anything. There can be a difference between what you say and what you believe.

The devils also believe and tremble, yet they are not, nor can they ever be saved.

Notice what the passage says was believed: "that there is one God." That, of course, is not enough to save.

Jesus said many would profess 'wonderful works', and yet He would say, 'I never knew you'.

Are these people being honest? Is it that their works weren't good enough, or were they trusting in their works? Are we then required to do "more incredibly wonderful works" to be considered saved?

There are to be works, but they must be His works, not our own.

Ok. What kind of "His works" are you talking about. I really would like you to be specific. What are the works? If I can't know what, am I supposed to wonder about my salvation for the rest of my life? Please don't be ambiguous, or that is the natural result--wonder and doubt. I John 5:13 says we can know that we have eternal life. If there are "works" that are required, and I don't know what they are, then how can I know with absolute 100% certainty that I have eternal life?
Also, these works that are His works, and not our own, do they happen robotically, or do they take effort on my part?

BTW, maybe I sound like I am unsure of my salvation. I am not. I know with 100% certainty that I am saved, and I try to and want to serve God with my heart. I am kind of playing "devil's advocate" to get you to think.

 

[Salamander]

Ok, if we were to look at salvation as a child first learning how to sucessfully ride his new bicycle, would he park that bicycle for forty days and nights having all the opportunity to ride it all that time? No, so as one is saved, they immediately begin producing works/fruit.

Works are evidences of a living faith.

I have enough faith to be saved, but only if that faith is exerscised in repentence according to II Cor 7.

Saved by works? No. Saved by grace through faith? Yes, because saving faith is never without repentence of the godly kind.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by webdog:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> We are justified by faith, yes. Romans 5 tells us this. But that faith is an ative faith, it is not a dead faith. There must be works to show. I used an analogy earlier of making a statement about a new chair holding me up. If I never use that chair by sitting in it, the statement is a dead statement.

The "dead" here doesn't mean "never existed". Think of it like a car that "dies". You would say that the car is "dead" or the engine is "dead". This would not denote that the car never was a car, or the engine never worked. In context then, the faith is one that has ceased to produce because of being in a backslidden state. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes. We all died in Adam.

BTW, a car that was dead... would not be revived by its own action... it would require a Mechanic to cause it to work again. </font>[/QUOTE]It really makes no difference if the car needs to be revived again. My point is that car EXISTED prior to it "dying". Faith without works is dead, then means that the faith being referred to is "dead faith", not faith that was never genuine.

 

[Faith alone]

Originally posted by Salamander:
I have heard some say that just having faith alone in the finished work on Calvary is enough to save, I suppose that would answer why we have so many professing Christians who don't live like Christians and rebuke anyone who tries to edify them to live holy as being "legalists".

To shoot that rabbit before he gets out of the gate, a "legalist" is only one who either thinks he merits salvation by works, or stays saved by works.

Salamander,

I gotta say that I don't follow you. You seem to be contradicting yourself here. (I know I'm coming late to this discussion.)

You refer to the misuse of "legalism," yet you define a legalist as "one who either thinks he merits salvation by works, or stays saved by works."

Yet you started out this discussion with "I have heard some say that just having faith alone in the finished work on Calvary is enough to save...'

Isn't that legalism by your own definition? You assume that saving faith is not enough, but you defined a legalist as one who thinks that eitehr he merits salvation by works or remains saved by works. Isn't that what you're saying above... that just having faith is not enough to either get saved or remain saved?

.

FA

 

[Faith alone]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
Let's see, some on here seem to be saying, "Salvation is not by works, but it's by faith, but faith without works isn't faith, so salvation is by faith based on works".

That, my friends, would be a salvation by works, not matter what lip service you give it otherwise.

Amen! Heard it enough. Sounds like double-talk and redefining terms.

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
As has been shown repeatedly, apiritual salvation is an event; justification is a process.

Uh, not sure what you mean here... We come to Christ, are justified, at a point-in-time. That's how Paul uses it. We grow in Christ - sanctification - which is a process... Did you mean this the other way around, perhaps???

Thx,

FA

 

[Faith alone]

Aresman,

Liked your post. I wanted to comment on this part:

Jesus said many would profess 'wonderful works', and yet He would say, 'I never knew you'.

Aresman:
Are these people being honest? Is it that their works weren't good enough, or were they trusting in their works? Are we then required to do "more incredibly wonderful works" to be considered saved?

Not sure what you mean here. The way I read this, these people were under the impression that works saved them... they needed to first recognize that they were sinners, in need of a Savior. 2nd, they needed to trust not in their works, but in Christ. The issue was not in the quality of their works, but in trusting in them at all.

Thx,

FA