Originally posted by Dragoon68:
I hold us all responsible - consumers and suppliers - unions and management - citizens and government - for the problems we're facing in many industries.
Unions are far from sinless. They were organized to provide for collective bargaining of wages and working conditions that could not be accomplished one on one.
That is built on the false premise that a) there is a "right" to employment and b) that right somehow supercedes the legitimate property rights of a business owner if they business owner has not used dishonest means to force people to work for them.
When unions began, they were a response to what amounted to slavery. Companies used debt and housing to trap people in subsistance living. It was wrong and should have been addressed as a slavery issue.
But a person's desire to work at a particular company at for a particular compensation DOES NOT constitute having a right to do so. It is their "right" and God given liberty to go work elsewhere or start their own company.
There is no legitimate moral basis for forcing a company to pay more for an employee's service than it is worth. That is exactly what unions have very frequently done.
They pushed for ridiculous work rules to "protect" their jobs that ultimately hurt themselves. Anyone who's worked with it knows both sides of this.
Very true.
Today, I see far less of that and I see a very large and increasing gap between the executive compensation and the "worker's" compensation. It's not illegal but it sure doesn't seem right.
How does that fit with the point you had just made? Would a company want to pay an exec more than they are worth... since in the exec's case, the company doesn't have to... they can fire him if
he does a bad job without question.
Consumers are very fickle! They'll buy the lowest price highest quality product regardless of any perceived loyalty to their neighbors.
I make a conscious choice to reward value first... and then fairness. When possible (which lately doesn't seem often), I avoid Chinese products. It is neither fair nor a good "value" choice to buy from a company that effectively uses slave labor.
That said, I have no intention of buying a GM vehicle. I have owned them and been burnt by lousy workmanship/design and poor customer service.
Everyone is looking for the best deal.
And US Unions have played a very large part in preventing US companies from offering the best deals on products of heavy manufacturing.
Foreign vehicles offered better price and better quality for a sufficient period of time to get a stronghold on the market. Don't count on that staying permanent because once they've got you the price goes up and the service goes down.
The problem there is that their prices for a while, and perhaps even now, were maintained artificially high through tariffs designed to protect the UAW and Big Four. IOW's, absent the Big 4 and the tariffs but continuing in competition with other foreign companies... there is actually forces that could drive car prices down.
Most capital investments in industry these days are for environmental projects.
Can you document that?
A large portion of our productivity energies is absorbed by non-productive leeches.
Absolutely. And you were very good on taxes and regulations as well.
Oddly, the same liberals that claim to be on the side of the working man support the very unions, regulations, and tax system that has progressively put these working men out of work... I guess that gives liberals one more opportunity to play the hero.
What a cruel system... create a problem while fooling the people into thinking you are helping them then fool the same people into thinking the problem was caused by "business greed" and come to the rescue.
The only thing I can disagree with you on is the concept and premises behind collective bargaining/strikes/etc. The 'best' way to ensure equitable compensation is employee mobility between jobs... and we have plenty of that now. Two car companies operating without a trust in the same city will find the "right" level for employee pay.
I happen to believe in American ingenuity and competitiveness... unions and to a large degree, "Big Business", stifle those genuine American values.
