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Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?

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SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
No, I did not.
In fact, we have both been outside of anything "Reformed" for all of our lives ( apart from one visit to a local "Sovereign Grace" Baptist church about 5 years ago ) and have never been influenced by that tradition or set of teachings in any way.

Both of our backgrounds include "Traditionalism" / "Provisionism", and include Evangelical Free churches as well as Independent, Fundamental Baptist churches for the greater part of our lives.

Most of what I've learned from God's word is in spite of the teachings that I grew up with, and not because of them.
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Apologies for misunderstanding you
 
Alan Gross

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
lets put is this way. Do you believe that the Gospel Message is to be proclaimed to every single human being, as per Mark 16:15; Colossians 1:23, etc? Do you believe that Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15: 1,3, "I declare unto you the Gospel...that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures". If this is part of the Gospel Message, and this Message is to be preached to every single human being, then it must follow that it is intended for every single human being, and that the OUR SINS is for every single human being! This is what the Bible clearly says, not theology!
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SavedByGrace said:
If
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is flesh philosophy and adding to the scripture where another consideration is what the rest of the Bible TEACHES.
 
Reformed

Reformed

Well-Known Member
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SavedByGrace said:
are you a Calvinist? What you have written requires that all sinners must possess a "free will", to "repent and turn to Christ".
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What Martin wrote does not require "that all sinners must possess a "free will"". The Calvinist sees perfect congruity between God's sovereign decree and man's choices. Besides, no man possesses perfect knowledge. God has ordained vessels of clay to preach the Gospel. It is God who moves sinners to repentance and faith. Ergo, the Calvinist eagerly wants the Gospel to be preached to all because it is the means of salvation for all who have been predestined to eternal life.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Reformed said:
What Martin wrote does not require "that all sinners must possess a "free will"". The Calvinist sees perfect congruity between God's sovereign decree and man's choices. Besides, no man possesses perfect knowledge. God has ordained vessels of clay to preach the Gospel. It is God who moves sinners to repentance and faith. Ergo, the Calvinist eagerly wants the Gospel to be preached to all because it is the means of salvation for all who have been predestined to eternal life.
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And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations.
~ Mark 13:10
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
because the "reformed" themselves don't really know what they believe in!

If the reformed accept that the Gospel Message is for the entire human race, then it is ONLY a sincere Message, if Jesus Christ died for the entire human race, or else it is insincere! Can you grasp this?
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Martin has offered you truth and good advice. Why not take it?
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Iconoclast said:
Martin has offered you truth and good advice. Why not take it?
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sbw, provides an if/then/if argument, but he doesn't understand or comprehend that Jesus death is an atoning new covenant with his chosen people. Therefore, when sbw requires Jesus atoning death to cover all humans, he declares that all humans are included in the new covenant and Jesus atoning blood makes all humanity entirely righteous through that covenant, which God makes with himself. Just as Abraham did nothing when God walked through the animal carcasses that were split in two (God walked through by Himself and swore by Himself), so Humans do nothing when Jesus went to the cross and died for my sins. Jesus death is particular to the sheep for whom he paid their sin debt. He did not pay for the entire human race.

sbw wrote: If the reformed accept that the Gospel Message is for the entire human race, then it is ONLY a sincere Message, if Jesus Christ died for the entire human race, or else it is insincere!
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The above comment by sbw is really an accusation against God. That should scare sbw, if he were aware of what he was doing.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AustinC said:
Since God has chosen to call out to His elect through a general call, is it wrong that he activates the faith of the elect through that call so that the elect hear his voice and follow him?
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I can just hear that message - now some of you, and only God knows who, will be able to actually understand my message this morning, as for the rest of you, you were damned from all eternity and nothing you can do will save yourself or your loved ones.

Now here is that message - Christ died for some of you for no known reason, God just decided to save a few. He made the rest of you so you are unable to desire God's righteous perfection, or His peace, or any of the other blessings of heaven. Nope, you down deep hate God. Can't you just see the audience applauding. :)
 
Alan Gross

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Like yours :rolleyes:
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We show The Bible and you think it's not The Truth.

That is the sin-cursed reasoning I'm talking about.

You have been taught error by pure heretics.

Then, they told you to cry.

What did they tell you to think in order to think you are 'saved by grace'?

What were you 'told'?

Repeat a 'prayer'?

What are you 'thinking'?
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Alan Gross said:
We show The Bible and you think it's not The Truth.

That is the sin-cursed reasoning I'm talking about.

You have been taught error by pure heretics.

Then, they told you to cry.

What did they tell you to think in order to think you are 'saved by grace'?

What were you 'told'?

Repeat a 'prayer'?

What are you 'thinking'?
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:Laugh:rolleyes::Biggrin:Roflmao
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Van said:
I can just hear that message - now some of you, and only God knows who, will be able to actually understand my message this morning, as for the rest of you, you were damned from all eternity and nothing you can do will save yourself or your loved ones.

Now here is that message - Christ died for some of you for no known reason, God just decided to save a few. He made the rest of you so you are unable to desire God's righteous perfection, or His peace, or any of the other blessings of heaven. Nope, you down deep hate God. Can't you just see the audience applauding. :)
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In fact, the Bible gives you the answer, though you clearly won't like what it shares.

Acts 13:48

And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
 
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