Is God the author of Evil/Sin?

[Miss E]

According to YOUR RULES, that doesn't matter. I told you that I don't believe what YOU say "Calvinists" believe (even though I am a Particular Baptist and a "Calvinist"). By YOUR RULES, only what a CALVINIST-HATER book says Calvinists believe matters. So the same rules must apply to "Free Will" as apply to "Calvinism". What you as a "Free Will" Christian believe does not matter any more than what I as a "Calvinist" Christian believe matters. The only thing that matters is what a FREE WILL-HATER book says that "Free Will" Christians believe matters.

So please, stop trying to earn heaven with your personal holiness and just accept the free gift of a Sovereign God. I am only trying to help you and show you "Free Willers" the truth of the Bible. I just want to save you from the evil "Free Will Heresy". (See, I am just as sincere and concerned a Christian as you are.)

I trust in a holy/good God that chooses to save those who believe upon His son, with no deserving it on my (or any free-willers) part. I don't have personal holiness, that isn't what saved me, Christ saved me because I chose to believe upon His word.

You're just putting words into my mouth, and you're venting your anger because I found someone who knows how to uncover your false, ungodly doctrine(s).

You may be concerned, but you are mislead, that much I can tell. I speak from the Truth of the Word of God.

 

[atpollard]

and I know Calvinism is a false doctrine, stating that God forces man to choose whether he believes upon His son or not. (which is ridiculous)

Is THAT what you believe? Because if so, it is wrong and I heavily rebuke it.

It is ridiculous, which is why Calvinism doesn't teach that. Only people that hate Calvinism claim that Calvinism teaches that.

So needless to say, I do not believe that.
Do you even care what Calvinism actually teaches, or are you just here to tell Calvinists that we are wrong ... whatever it is we actually believe.

 

[Miss E]

and there isn't 'MY/OUR/YOUR RULES'. There is only GOD'S WORD and He has the authority here. not me, not you.

 

[atpollard]

all I'm pointing out is that you have CALVINISTS (i don't care what DEGREE they are) that say they believe in the OP i stated.

Who? Where? Name one!

 

[Miss E]

It is ridiculous, which is why Calvinism doesn't teach that. Only people that hate Calvinism claim that Calvinism teaches that.

So needless to say, I do not believe that.
Do you even care what Calvinism actually teaches, or are you just here to tell Calvinists that we are wrong ... whatever it is we actually believe.

I PROMISE you, the author gave factual proof of an ACTUAL Calvinist that said those things, believing God makes people sin. You might not believe that (and thank God!) but you do believe in a false doctrine and I will never not point out that falseness because it is what my God compels me to do. But you've hardened your heart and choose to see a unholy God who forces people to love Him against their own will. Sad really. :/

I know what you Calvinists believe, and I don't care for it. I just point out the places you are wrong, and let your heart decide whether you will repent of your false beliefs or not. -shrug- Looks like you still have some repenting to do!

 

[atpollard]

and there isn't 'MY/OUR/YOUR RULES'. There is only GOD'S WORD and He has the authority here. not me, not you.

Then why do you insist that Calvinism teaches something that all of the Calvinists that respond tell you "No it doesn't."
Why are you LYING about what Calvinism teaches?

 

[Miss E]

Who? Where? Name one!

LOOK UP THE BOOK AND READ IT FOR YOURSELF. If you care that much, you will look it up. I can't copy/paste (truly I can't!) because it won't let me. And I don't feel like I ought to re-write it here. It's there, you can either go look it up or call me a liar. Whatever you want. I don't care, and I do forgive you for your ungodly conduct you've displayed here today.

 

[atpollard]

I just point out the places you are wrong

You are NOT pointing out the places where WE are wrong by LYING about what we believe and rejecting YOUR LIE rather than OUR BELIEF. You are only pointing out the places where YOU are wrong about OUR beliefs.

 

[atpollard]

LOOK UP THE BOOK AND READ IT FOR YOURSELF. If you care that much, you will look it up. I can't copy/paste (truly I can't!) because it won't let me. And I don't feel like I ought to re-write it here. It's there, you can either go look it up or call me a liar. Whatever you want. I don't care, and I do forgive you for your ungodly conduct you've displayed here today.

I am asking for the name of JUST ONE PERSON that believes what you claim in the OP. You say MANY CALVINISTS believe it and all I asked for was just one name. Your excuse is pathetic. You cannot provide one name because you are making this nonsense up.

 

[atpollard]

I PROMISE you, the author gave factual proof of an ACTUAL Calvinist that said those things, believing God makes people sin.

I can quote an ACTUAL Free Willer that makes claims that only the writings of "Apostles and Prophets" are scripture, thus The Gospels of Mark and Luke as well as the Letters of Paul and James are all "tares sown by the devil" to confuse the church. I do not credit all Free Willers with his crazy beliefs. I appear to have higher standards than your author/teacher. Just how sad is that?

 

[AustinC]

Definitely not the first choice. God gave Man FREE WILL to sin or to not. God CAN stop it, but he allows it to happen to make men accountable for their actions.

And definitely not the second, because God makes no mistakes. But God, in His sovereign glory, can make all things, bad and good (that men choose to do good or bad), work together for the good of those who choose to love Him and make Him their Lord.

Why don't you just fess up to the fact you believe in a God that makes evil happen?

Is God giving man free will, which brought sin, not a mistake? Doesn't that make God evil for not stopping sin and rebellion before it could begin?
MissE, I don't think you have really considered the implications your position has on the nature and attributes of God. Your God is incapacitated by humans and their will to do whatever they wish.

 

[1689Dave]

According to your Calvinist teacher(s), whom I am currently reading about via this enlightening criticism of your doctrines, you all teach that God predestines people to sin. Thus, aka, God makes people sin.

You say God chooses people to be saved, so why would you not say that God chooses which person will sin?

Is that not what you believe?

In which case, doesn't that make God an Evil God who makes Evil happen in the world?

That takes out the responsibility of men for their own action and saying that GOD causes the sin/evil in this world.

So God caused the Holocaust. God caused 9/11. etc. etc.

That is what ya'lls teachers teach. From what I have read.

If you're wondering what book I'm reading it is this one:

Against Calvinism : Rescuing God's Reputation From Radical Reformed Theology
Author: Olson, Roger E.

So, in conclusion, if you believe that, that God makes man sin (as well as make man choose to believe upon His son), you are contradicting scripture that says God is Love, God is good and Holy.

Note, that when I say that you say that God makes people sin, I am not saying that when God punishes people that is evil, no, that is Justice, and God is an all JUST God as well as an ALL GOOD God.

Now let me hear your remarks and your defense of your very own belief and tell me how it makes sense and why you worship a God that (let's say), made that man kill your child or some other atrocious action and that that man did not commit that sin HIMSELF, by HIS OWN WILL, that God only KNEW about, but was able to use for His glory in his mysterious way, but at the same time, not FORCING that man to commit such a sin, but allowing it to happen for all things work for the good of those who Love God.

Please know I am not pointing out these horrid views of Calvinism to condemn or humiliate those who hold onto those views, but to rebuke and correct and give a defense of the hope that I have in Jesus, whom I chose on my free will to follow.

Have you studied Calvinism first hand? Or just heard some things about it that are being taught by those who oppose it?

 

[Miss E]

OK Here's your proof:

ulrich zwingli and (behold) john calvin:





R.V Sproul:



Here's the book if you can view it: (I don't know, you might have to be a student where I am to view it)

Shibboleth Authentication Request

 

[tyndale1946]

I can quote an ACTUAL Free Willer that makes claims that only the writings of "Apostles and Prophets" are scripture, thus The Gospels of Mark and Luke as well as the Letters of Paul and James are all "tares sown by the devil" to confuse the church. I do not credit all Free Willers with his crazy beliefs. I appear to have higher standards than your author/teacher. Just how sad is that?

Miss E... I can probably tell you where this Calvinist writer got this idea, which is not scriptural in his interpretation

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.

When God withdraws his light what is created... Darkness... When God withdraws his peace what follows... Evil?... Is God to blame?... NO!... MAN IS!... Brother Glen

Btw... My rule of thumb has always been this, I compare scripture with scripture and even the best of authors can be wrong and I can too... Brother Glen

 

[Miss E]

Miss E... I can probably tell you where this Calvinist writer got this idea, which is not scriptural in his interpretation

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.

When God withdraws his light what is created... Darkness... When God withdraws his peace what follows... Evil?... Is God to blame?... NO!... MAN IS!... Brother Glen

Btw... My rule of thumb has always been this, I compare scripture with scripture and even the best of authors can be wrong and I can too... Brother Glen

Glad you agree it is false doctrine. I agree too! I just wanted to point out that there is calvanists who believe this and I wanted to see if anyone else held these same beliefs. But I guess ya'll are the less radical Calvinists here .

 

[atpollard]

Reformed Theology Vs. Hyper-Calvinism

by Michael Horton

Before the average believer today learns what Reformed theology (i.e., Calvinism) actually is, he first usually has to learn what it’s not. Often, detractors define Reformed theology not according to what it actually teaches, but according to where they think its logic naturally leads. Even more tragically, some hyper-Calvinists have followed the same course. Either way, “Calvinism” ends up being defined by extreme positions that it does not in fact hold as scriptural. The charges leveled against Reformed theology, of which hyper-Calvinism is actually guilty, received a definitive response at the international Synod of Dort (1618–1619), along with the Westminster Confession of Faith and Catechisms.

Is God the Author of Sin?

The God of Israel “is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he” (Deut. 32:4–5). In fact, James seems to have real people in mind when he cautions, “Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am being tempted by God,’ for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one” (James 1:13). Sin and evil have their origin not in God or creation, but in the personal will and action of creatures.

Scripture sets forth two guardrails here: On one hand, God “works all things after the counsel of his own will” (Eph. 1:15); on the other, God does not — in fact, cannot — do evil. We catch a glimpse of these two guardrails at once in several passages, most notably in Genesis 45 and Acts 2. In the former, Joseph recognizes that while the intention of his brothers in selling him into slavery was evil, God meant it for good, so that many people could be saved during this famine (vv. 4–8). We read in the same breath in Acts 2:23 that “lawless men” are blamed for the crucifixion, and yet Jesus was “delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God….” The challenge is to affirm what Scripture teaches without venturing any further. We know from Scripture that both are true, but not how. Perhaps the most succinct statement of this point is found in the Westminster Confession of Faith (chap. 3.1): “God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;” — there’s one guardrail — “yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creature; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established,” and with that, the second guardrail. The same point is made in the Belgic Confession of Faith (Article 13), adding that whatever God has left to His own secret judgment is not for us to probe any further.​

Calvinist beliefs, as explained by Calvinists and supported in Calvinist Confessions of Faith ... rather than paraphrased by ANTI-Calvinists cherry-picking excepts from the works of individuals and then "man-spalining" what they really meant.

 

[atpollard]

With respect to R.C. Sproul, you can read his actual views in his own words and decide for yourself if he claims that God is the author of Evil:

Distinguishing the Active and Passive Wills of God
from R.C. Sproul May 08, 2010

Joseph said about the treachery perpetrated by his brothers, “You meant it for evil; God meant it for good” (Gen. 50:20). God’s good will was served through the bad will of Joseph’s brothers. This does not mean that since they were only doing the will of God the acts of the brothers were actually virtuous. All acts must be judged together with their intentions, and the actions of Joseph’s brothers were rightly judged by God to be evil. That God brings good out of evil only underscores the power and the excellence of His sovereign, decretive will.

We sometimes get at this same problem by distinguishing between God’s active will and His passive will. Again we face difficulties. When God is “passive,” He is, in a sense, actively passive. I do not mean to speak nonsense but merely to show that God is never totally passive. When He seems to be passive, He is actively choosing not to intercede directly.

Augustine addressed the problem this way: “Man sometimes with a good will wishes something which God does not will, as when a good son wishes his father to live, while God wishes him to die. Again it may happen that man with a bad will wishes what God wills righteously, as when a bad son wishes his father to die, and God also wills it …For the things which God rightly wills, He accomplishes by the evil wills of bad men.”
​

Do you disagree with what Sproul said?
Refute it with Scripture!

 

[Barry Johnson]

With respect to R.C. Sproul, you can read his actual views in his own words and decide for yourself if he claims that God is the author of Evil:

Distinguishing the Active and Passive Wills of God
from R.C. Sproul May 08, 2010

Joseph said about the treachery perpetrated by his brothers, “You meant it for evil; God meant it for good” (Gen. 50:20). God’s good will was served through the bad will of Joseph’s brothers. This does not mean that since they were only doing the will of God the acts of the brothers were actually virtuous. All acts must be judged together with their intentions, and the actions of Joseph’s brothers were rightly judged by God to be evil. That God brings good out of evil only underscores the power and the excellence of His sovereign, decretive will.

We sometimes get at this same problem by distinguishing between God’s active will and His passive will. Again we face difficulties. When God is “passive,” He is, in a sense, actively passive. I do not mean to speak nonsense but merely to show that God is never totally passive. When He seems to be passive, He is actively choosing not to intercede directly.

Augustine addressed the problem this way: “Man sometimes with a good will wishes something which God does not will, as when a good son wishes his father to live, while God wishes him to die. Again it may happen that man with a bad will wishes what God wills righteously, as when a bad son wishes his father to die, and God also wills it …For the things which God rightly wills, He accomplishes by the evil wills of bad men.”
​

Do you disagree with what Sproul said?
Refute it with Scripture!

Calvonists

According to your Calvinist teacher(s), whom I am currently reading about via this enlightening criticism of your doctrines, you all teach that God predestines people to sin. Thus, aka, God makes people sin.

You say God chooses people to be saved, so why would you not say that God chooses which person will sin?

Is that not what you believe?

In which case, doesn't that make God an Evil God who makes Evil happen in the world?

That takes out the responsibility of men for their own action and saying that GOD causes the sin/evil in this world.

So God caused the Holocaust. God caused 9/11. etc. etc.

That is what ya'lls teachers teach. From what I have read.

If you're wondering what book I'm reading it is this one:

Against Calvinism : Rescuing God's Reputation From Radical Reformed Theology
Author: Olson, Roger E.

So, in conclusion, if you believe that, that God makes man sin (as well as make man choose to believe upon His son), you are contradicting scripture that says God is Love, God is good and Holy.

Note, that when I say that you say that God makes people sin, I am not saying that when God punishes people that is evil, no, that is Justice, and God is an all JUST God as well as an ALL GOOD God.

Now let me hear your remarks and your defense of your very own belief and tell me how it makes sense and why you worship a God that (let's say), made that man kill your child or some other atrocious action and that that man did not commit that sin HIMSELF, by HIS OWN WILL, that God only KNEW about, but was able to use for His glory in his mysterious way, but at the same time, not FORCING that man to commit such a sin, but allowing it to happen for all things work for the good of those who Love God.

Please know I am not pointing out these horrid views of Calvinism to condemn or humiliate those who hold onto those views, but to rebuke and correct and give a defense of the hope that I have in Jesus, whom I chose on my free will to follow.

Calvonists believe that God is not the Author of sin , because the Westminster confession says so . Thats it lol ..

 

[Alan Gross]

According to YOUR RULES, that doesn't matter. I told you that I don't believe what YOU say "Calvinists" believe (even though I am a Particular Baptist and a "Calvinist"). By YOUR RULES, only what a CALVINIST-HATER book says Calvinists believe matters. So the same rules must apply to "Free Will" as apply to "Calvinism". What you as a "Free Will" Christian believe does not matter any more than what I as a "Calvinist" Christian believe matters. The only thing that matters is what a FREE WILL-HATER book says that "Free Will" Christians believe matters.

So please, stop trying to earn heaven with your personal holiness and just accept the free gift of a Sovereign God. I am only trying to help you and show you "Free Willers" the truth of the Bible. I just want to save you from the evil "Free Will Heresy". (See, I am just as sincere and concerned a Christian as you are.)

To add to what atpollard is saying about, stop thinking you deserved something,

"What sin has been uncovered?

Any?

Any sin convict the heart?

Ever thought that Repenting of what you 'think' in your deceived and desperately wicked heart?

Ever seen yourself as a Hell-deserving, Hopeless, and Helpless sinner, before Almighty God?

Repent and Believe The Gospel.

Not, 'pick Heaven, if that sounds cool'.

Bragging that you do not Love The God of Ther Bible, Who is The God of The Eternal Covenant of Grace is unbelievable Offensive sin to God Almighty.

To call The Eternal Words of God, by the name of a man, and then, dismiss them, is two more horribly abominable sins.

 

[Alan Gross]

OK Here's your proof:

ulrich zwingli and (behold) john calvin:

View attachment 4062

View attachment 4063

R.V Sproul:

View attachment 4064

Here's the book if you can view it: (I don't know, you might have to be a student where I am to view it)

Shibboleth Authentication Request

I'm not a Calvinist and can do without him, completely. I never have heard of him, more than 10 or 12 times in my life, before I got on this board.

Now some folks we know take up a profession
of “Godliness” and try to make an “outward showing
of Godliness”, for the sake of some present
or future gain.
***

SUCH AS; in an attempt to gain a name in a church of Jesus Christ, OR, to get a reputation among godly neighbors and acquaintance, OR, for the sake of worldly interests, or
THEY MAY EVEN THINK THAT THEY CAN “obtain” the “favor of God” now, and Heaven hereafter.
***
BUT, after all, what will the hope and gain of a person that attempts to take up a profession of “Godliness” and try to make an “outward showing of Godliness”, when such a person is
Said by God to be “HYPOCRITICAL” and there Will Be a Time when:

"God takes away his soul”
***

“For what is the hope of the hypocrite,
though he has gained, when God takes away his soul ?”
(Job 27:8)

4. PERSONAL WORSHIP of THE GODHEAD - ! Aware of the Godhead Master Index of Portfolio