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Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ?
- Thread starter savedbymercy
- Start date
Perhaps you better look at that verse again in another translation, and do some further study on it.
(ESV) I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.
God is not the author of sin, and that is not a proof text that you can hang your hat on. It is teaching about calamity, such as the hurricane that is about to hit your southern coast. It is not "evil." God has a purpose in such things. And if people don't want to live in hurricane-prone areas they don't have to. Don't blame God. I have never been in a hurricane in my life. I have never been in a tornado either. For that matter I have never experienced an earthquake. We make choices; we live with them.
humblethinker
Active Member
Zara, welcome to the BB. This is our favorite topic of discussion. ;-)
savedbymercy
New Member
Isa 45:7
Isa 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
The Sovereign Lord God has declared that He Creates Evil, for it matters not the contextual venue God hath chosen to make known such a Truth, what matters is that He did reveal it, and not to accept it and rationalize it away is Unbelief !
For God hath Created all things, and for His Purpose were they Created Rev 4:11
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Anything that has existence, moral evil to be included, for ra in Isa 45:7 is a noun !
God Created any source that brought ra into existence, for how could moral evil proceed from the devil, from man, or anything else, if God did not Create it and give it being to begin with ? And everything God Created was for His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ and His Cross !
God did not have to give the devil a being, Lucifer a being, nor Adam a being, or being to any source that would bring moral evil into His World, that Said, God Created Evil, all Evil !
Isa 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
The Sovereign Lord God has declared that He Creates Evil, for it matters not the contextual venue God hath chosen to make known such a Truth, what matters is that He did reveal it, and not to accept it and rationalize it away is Unbelief !
For God hath Created all things, and for His Purpose were they Created Rev 4:11
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Anything that has existence, moral evil to be included, for ra in Isa 45:7 is a noun !
God Created any source that brought ra into existence, for how could moral evil proceed from the devil, from man, or anything else, if God did not Create it and give it being to begin with ? And everything God Created was for His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ and His Cross !
God did not have to give the devil a being, Lucifer a being, nor Adam a being, or being to any source that would bring moral evil into His World, that Said, God Created Evil, all Evil !
This is what God said here. He is the one and only God. .....He creates calamity not evil. You must have a very bad translation as DHK said in Post #243 above.
Isaiah 45: 5-7 (NKJV) ... http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+45&version=NKJV
5. I am the Lord, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me,
6. That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides Me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other;
7. I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’
.................................18. .....“I am the Lord, and there is no other."
zara .....
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savedbymercy
New Member
This is what God said here. He is the one and only God. .....He creates calamity not evil. You must have a very bad translation as DHK said in Post #243 above.
Isaiah 45: 5-7 (NKJV) ... http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+45&version=NKJV
5. I am the Lord, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me,
6. That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides Me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other;
7. I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’
.................................18. .....“I am the Lord, and there is no other."
zara .....
Isa 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
..........
hello again, saved:
You seem to persist in using a bogus Bible. Toss it out!.
Give us the version you cite, ie: NIV, KJV, NKJV, .... and the URL link.
There is a lot of crap and worms out there. .........zara ..... :tonofbricks:
hello again, saved:
You seem to persist in using a bogus Bible. Toss it out!.
Give us the version you cite, ie: NIV, KJV, NKJV, .... and the URL link.
There is a lot of crap and worms out there. .........zara ..... :tonofbricks:
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He is not talking about "moral" evil but the kind of "evil" which is set in contrast to "peace." Providential evil that destroys a peaceful life.
The term "evil" is placed in contrast to "peace" NOT RIGHTEOUSNESS, and has reference to the greater context of "evil" circumstances that God brought upon Israel for their sins - 70 year captivity - and how he would use Cyrus (Isa. 45:1-5) to save them from their past 70 years of discipline. Of course, I realize that the breadth of meaning in a term means nothing to you or the immediate context which restricts that breadth of meaning to a precise meaning that fits the immeidate contrast of "peace" and context of providential disciplinary evil upon them. For 70 years they had not experienced "peace" but "evil" by providential consequences to their sins as a nation.
However, context means nothing to you. The only thing that matters to you is to win an argument and promote your false doctrines.
Moral evil IS NOT CREATED but rather is a CONDITION and ACTIONS of heart. God says that sin was "FOUND" in Satan not CREATED in Satan:
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
If the clean thing (sinlessness) cannot originate from an unclean (sinful) source than how can the unclean (sin) originate from a clean (holy God) source without at the very same time also first defiling that source?
James 1:13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
God is not the source of temptation to sin (v. 13) and neither is God the source of sin (v. 17) and James is explicitly defining where the source of sin originates and where it does not originate. DO NOT ERR is his warning and you have erred.
God does regulate evil consequences (Psa. 76:10; Isa. 45:7) and in that sense is the immediate source in direct contact with his creatures but He is not the ultimate cause of evil. Instead he "works all things" ultimately for good:
Ge 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
Ps 76:10 Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.
Evil does not originate from God as it is silly for God to originate evil and then restrain it. Evil originates from sinners and God restrains all their INTENTS to do evil that will not work ultimately for the good of His people and His glory.
Why restrain the "remainder of wrath" if God is the source of it? Wouldn't that be God ordaining evil that he never designed to allow?????
savedbymercy
New Member
Isa 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Hes talking about evil period ! Please show us the verse that says He is not talking about moral evil ! Anything that has existence God is the Primary source of its being and existence. Now does moral evil have existence ? If it does, God Created it !
Hes talking about evil period ! Please show us the verse that says He is not talking about moral evil ! Anything that has existence God is the Primary source of its being and existence. Now does moral evil have existence ? If it does, God Created it !
You are using a translation 400 years old. A lexicon will show you what "evil" encompassed back then, and likewise what the Greek word means.
There is good reason why the ESV translates it this way:
(ESV) I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.
On your part it is as if you deny the Word of God.
Moral evil IS NOT CREATED but rather is a CONDITION and ACTIONS of heart. God says that sin was "FOUND" in Satan not CREATED in Satan:
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
He says "FOUND in thee" not "CREATED in thee."
Look at a Bible Lexicon, the term "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 CAN MEAN "calmity" or providential evil and look at the context of Isaiah 45:7 and he is predicting the the rise of Cyrus (Isa. 45:1-5) who would deliver Israel from the 70 year captivity and bondage or the providential evil brought upon them for their sins.
Of couse we already know your response - PARROT RESPONSE - because you could care less about handling the scriptures honestly - as your only use for the scriptures is to pervert and twist them to teach what your belly desires.
God has woven into us all many Natural survival instincts: actions, pleasures, strategies, emotions .... as hunting, copulating, hunger, thirst, pain, pleasure, .... Since the "Original Sin" of Adam, Satan has contorted and tricked these same survival demands and reintroduced them as Evil. ..... ie: Evil can be thought of as the wicked use of natural survival instincts to degrade humanity and separate us from God.
God created our natural survival instincts.
satan corrupts them, deceives you, and turns them into evil.
zara .....:godisgood:
God created our natural survival instincts.
satan corrupts them, deceives you, and turns them into evil.
zara .....:godisgood:
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savedbymercy
New Member
dhk
Thats your excuse for rejecting the Truth ? The Truth stands !
Isa 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Thats your excuse for rejecting the Truth ? The Truth stands !
Isa 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Scripture please !
Scripture please !
What part of the word "found" do you not understand?
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Note he was "perfect" until iniquity was "FOUND" in thee
He says "FOUND in thee" not "CREATED in thee."
This is how first sin entered into God's creation through Satan and then it entered the world of mankind through Adam. In neither case does the Bible say that sin was "created"! Everything God created occurred in the first six days in Genesis 1 and EVERYTHING God "created" God said was "GOOD" and sin could never be called "good" by God. He never "created" sin.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
What part of show me a scripture where God states as you have alledged this:
You do not understand !
What part of show me a scripture where God states as you have alledged this:
You do not understand !
God "finished" all his works in six days and rested from "all his works" that he both "created" and "made" on the Seventh day.
Satan was created "perfect" in all his ways and sin was not "FOUND" in him until AFTER CREATION! The Bible explicitly denies sin was "created" but God but rather was "FOUND" by God AFTER the works of creation had ceased! If you can't see this, that is your problem not mine!
If you can't find a lexicon and see that the term translated "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 can mean "calamites" that is your problem not mine.
If you can see Isaiah 45:7 is placed in a prophetic context following a predicted savior ("Cyrus" - vv. 1-5) that would deliver Israel from "EVIL" bondage and all the calamaties 70 years bondage that is your problem not mine!
God raised up Babylon and Assyria to bring "evil" calamaties upon the Northern and Southern Tribes and God raised up Cyrus to deliver them from that "evil"!
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