You don't even understand the scriptures you quote and it is quite obvious! Your a blind man leading others into the ditch of your false doctrines.
Go learn what it means when God says, "I have purposed it; I WILL DO it"
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Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ?
- Thread starter savedbymercy
- Start date
You don't even understand the scriptures you quote and it is quite obvious! Your a blind man leading others into the ditch of your false doctrines.
Go learn what it means when God says, "I have purposed it; I WILL DO it"
savedbymercy
New Member
The Kingdom that God prepared for the elect before the foundation was a Kingdom that could only be entered into by New Birth. In order for that to happen, the Elect would first need to be made sinners by One Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Adam must sin and bring sin and death into the world for God's Greater Purpose of Christ being slain by wicked Hands !
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Adam must sin and bring sin and death into the world for God's Greater Purpose of Christ being slain by wicked Hands !
Ooohh! So here you admit that God's Purpose before the world began had to be fulfilled in time and space and that the purpose did not accomplish it but only the predestinated fulfilling of that purpose accomplishes it.:thumbs::thumbs:
Fred's Wife
Member
savedbymercy
New Member
I can tell you are totally confused. The Kingdom God prepared for the Elect before the world began, was a Kingdom that could be entered into only By New Birth. New Birth is a Blessing of Redemption.
Sin had to be caused by God's Purpose in order to prepare God's Elect for the Kingdom of God prepared before them from the foundation !
Fred's Wife
Member
I think that is what SBM is saying, but he twists Scripture up so much, I'm not really sure what he is saying. I think he means that God decreed sin to come into the world in order that God might redeem "the ELECT" so they could populate the Kingdom of God?
isn't this getting near Mormon land, where God redeemed spriitually preexistant beings in order to populate his children into his Kingdom?
Fred's Wife
Member
Interesting point!
Look at what you said! God purposed a kingdom that the elect could not enter into apart from new birth. Hence, they were not in that kingdom before the world began because they were not born again before the world began! Dahhhh!
savedbymercy
New Member
Do you see now that God created Adam to bring sin and death into the world in pursance of His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus ? Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
God did not create anything with the intent to produce evil. Evil is contrary not only to God's REVEALED will as God prohibits sin but evil is contrary to his Nature as His nature cannot look upon evil much less approve of evil.
God's sovereign will is divided into what is God's good pleasure (all things that characterize redemption and righteousness as in Ephesians 1:4-13) and God's permission of evil in order to be overruled by righteousness (Psa. 76:10).
Like a mocking bird you keep quoting Ephesians 1:11 when that is found in the context of redemption FROM sin and the establishment of righteousness in his elect. However, in the context of sin in relationship to God you will never find mention of God's good pleasure but always his abhorance and permission.
However, you are incapable of discerning between purpose and fulfillment so you will be incapable of accepting the obvious.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Back to square 1, you do not understand God's Eternal redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus. Adam was Created to perform his role in this Purpose !
Do you know what Redemption is for ?
Back to square 1, you do not understand God's Eternal redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus. Adam was Created to perform his role in this Purpose !
Do you know what Redemption is for ?
savedbymercy
New Member
God Glorified through Jesus Christ !
1 Pet 4:11
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
In the Eternal Purpose of God, He ordained sin, caused sin and death to enter this world, so that He may be Glorified through Jesus Christ. Without sin entering into the World, this Eternal Purpose would not have been accomplished!
No man can worship God or Glorify God aright and acceptability if not through Jesus Christ, this applies even back to Adam, the First Man. All men who worship and extol and Praise the True and Living God, must Worship Him in Spirit and In Truth Jn 4:23-24
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
And that can only be through Jesus Christ, whom is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and no man comes to the Father [in Worship] but by Christ, the Mediator between God and Men. God did not reveal Christ to Adam until after the Fall and sin had entered into the World, here in Gen 3:15 !
When Jesus says John 4 :23-24 that they which worship God must worship Him in Spirit and Truth, He is informing us that one must be born again of the Spirit , New Birth to Worship God aright, that goes all the way back to Adam ! Adam and the Elect in him before the fall, could not ,please God in the flesh Rom 8:8 ! The fall proved it !
It is through New Birth through Christ that we become True Worshippers as God desires Jn 4:23
It is through sin, that God ordained that His People would Worship and Glorify Him through Jesus Christ !
__________________
1 Pet 4:11
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
In the Eternal Purpose of God, He ordained sin, caused sin and death to enter this world, so that He may be Glorified through Jesus Christ. Without sin entering into the World, this Eternal Purpose would not have been accomplished!
No man can worship God or Glorify God aright and acceptability if not through Jesus Christ, this applies even back to Adam, the First Man. All men who worship and extol and Praise the True and Living God, must Worship Him in Spirit and In Truth Jn 4:23-24
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
And that can only be through Jesus Christ, whom is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and no man comes to the Father [in Worship] but by Christ, the Mediator between God and Men. God did not reveal Christ to Adam until after the Fall and sin had entered into the World, here in Gen 3:15 !
When Jesus says John 4 :23-24 that they which worship God must worship Him in Spirit and Truth, He is informing us that one must be born again of the Spirit , New Birth to Worship God aright, that goes all the way back to Adam ! Adam and the Elect in him before the fall, could not ,please God in the flesh Rom 8:8 ! The fall proved it !
It is through New Birth through Christ that we become True Worshippers as God desires Jn 4:23
It is through sin, that God ordained that His People would Worship and Glorify Him through Jesus Christ !
__________________
savedbymercy
New Member
That the World was Created for a Redemptive Purpose, and so God purposed and brought into the World sin and death through His creatures, is true because before it [The World] was Created, God hath already in Purpose laid the iniquities of His Elect upon Christ. We know this from various scriptures ! Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
1 Pet 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Before the foundation of the world is before Adam was Created !
2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Also, The Things that do occur in Rev 20-22 at the End of all things, those were the Things God Purposed and had in Mind when He began Creation in Gen 1-3, So the end of all things, though last in performance, yet was First in Purpose or Intention !
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
1 Pet 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Before the foundation of the world is before Adam was Created !
2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Also, The Things that do occur in Rev 20-22 at the End of all things, those were the Things God Purposed and had in Mind when He began Creation in Gen 1-3, So the end of all things, though last in performance, yet was First in Purpose or Intention !
Absolute proof you are wrong is that the first entrance of sin was POST- creation and is described as being "found" in Satan rather than created by God.
Second, the nature of sin which was "found" was not an action but an attitude/lust that simply lacked righteousness. Hence, sin originated within Satan and man as a desire/lust absent of righteousness which was then revealed by a determined action.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
You have a god who causes man to sin and then blames man as though sin was his responsibility and cause. That is the epitomy of hypocrisy.
You have a god who creates sin, causes sin but judges another for it. That is the epitomy of injustice.
You have a god who creates sin, causes sin but cannot be charged to be a sinner. That is the epitomy of irrationality.
You have a god who creates sin, causes sin but cannot be justly accountable for the sin he is responsible for creating and causing. That is the epitomy of an oxymoron.
In contrast we have a God who is totally holy without sin who justly created free choice with full responsibility and from whence sin was "found" in God's creation rather than CREATED by God.
Sin was "found" in an attitude as opposed to an action toward self or God that came short of God's glory and then expressed itself by actions contrary to the revealed will of God. Thus sin entered creation rather than an act of creation. Thus sin entered simply as an attitude/lust void of righteousness upon which the will acted.
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savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
That means nothing. The end for which Creation existed was for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus !
That means nothing. The end for which Creation existed was for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus !
Of course, we know every text in the scripture that contradicts your presonal creed means nothing! You are no different than the Catholics in how they deal with scriptures or any cult in how they deal with scriptures. You either TWIST it to fit your little creed or avoid and dismiss all the contrary evidences placed in front of your nose just as you did all the evidences in my last post.
Are you saying that God caused/author Sin?
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
This World was Created for a Redemptive Purpose, centered in Christ Jesus dying on the Cross for sin !
Col 1:12-16
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
This World was Created for a Redemptive Purpose, centered in Christ Jesus dying on the Cross for sin !
Col 1:12-16
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: