Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ?

[billwald]

>Second, you cannot even defend yourself by giving your own testimony

If he did half the people on BB would call him a liar.

 

[savedbymercy]

First, you have not disagreed with anything I have said.
So my post is accurate enough about your theology, and every poster on this board already knows how ludicrous it makes you look.

Second, you cannot even defend yourself by giving your own testimony.
The very disciples would testify often of who Christ was, and it was this Christ in whom they believed that brought them remission of sins.

You refuse to testify of when you believed, what you believed, how you believed, etc. No one on this board really knows if you are saved or one of the elect, or if you are simply a wolf in sheep's clothing. When and how were you saved? What is your testimony?

You just reject the truth. I challenge you to prove anything wrong or unscriptural in post 114, 115, 116, and 118

You can start with post 114. Show us what is scripturally not true !

 

[savedbymercy]

>Second, you cannot even defend yourself by giving your own testimony

If he did half the people on BB would call him a liar.

I challenge you to prove anything wrong or unscriptural in post 114, 115, 116, and 118

You can start with post 114. Show us what is scripturally not true !

 

[DHK]

You just reject the truth. I challenge you to prove anything wrong or unscriptural in post 114, 115, 116, and 118

You can start with post 114. Show us what is scripturally not true !

I already did that in posts #117 and #120.
I have done my work. But you have avoided my questions to you.

 

[savedbymercy]

I already did that in posts #117 and #120.
I have done my work. But you have avoided my questions to you.

You have not did nothing but keep asking me for my testimony,which I gave a while back, and will not be giving it again. If you notice, I do not ask any of you for your testimony because I can tell from your posts what you believe, its obvious, you believe in salvation by works ! I do not need for you to tell me your testimony, I see your fruit. Now back to God being the cause of sin, start your refutation by showing us anything amiss in Post 114 and then explain why it is, then we Will go to the next post 115.

If you wanna debate right, you need to be able to prove what one has laid out scripturally, you need to be able to prove why it is wrong by scripture, then I defend what you successfully can refute or have refuted, but you have not done that, and you do not have the ability to do it. Your best weapon is to cry, you take scripture out of context.

 

[savedbymercy]

I already did that in posts #117 and #120.
I have done my work. But you have avoided my questions to you.

Those are poor refutations, nothing you said or quoted demonstrates that this World was not created by God for an Redemptive Purpose in Christ, which Purpose, by God's own will necessitated sin into His World ! Keep trying though.

 

[DHK]

Those are poor refutations, nothing you said or quoted demonstrates that this World was not created by God for an Redemptive Purpose in Christ, which Purpose, by God's own will necessitated sin into His World ! Keep trying though.

You have not only made God the author of sin, your paradigm states that God desires man to sin.
In reality God hates sin. But your theology is so convoluted that you believe in a God that is the exact opposite of what the Bible teaches.

 

[savedbymercy]

You have not only made God the author of sin, your paradigm states that God desires man to sin.
In reality God hates sin. But your theology is so convoluted that you believe in a God that is the exact opposite of what the Bible teaches.

I challenge you to prove anything wrong or unscriptural in post 114, 115, 116, and 118

You can start with post 114. Show us what is scripturally not true !

 

[DHK]

Yes God caused sin into the World !

Your opinion only. Not worth much at this point.

That God decreed and purposed sin into His on purpose, that Adam's sin was not only permitted but actually determined by by God, this is taught by the Apostle Paul here Rom 8:20-21

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Paul does not deny that Adam had no rational and volitional responsibility in this matter, for he did, but God had decreed, determined that Adam would deliberately disobey and bring the fall of man and His creation into bondage, so Paul says he [Adam as the physical head of creation] was subjected to vanity or sin, by God, because God did it in Hope ! The word vanity means perverseness's, which means:

The passage is speaking of the curse. It is simply saying that when you are born into this world you don't have a choice. You are born subjected to the curse of this world, not willingly. You have no choice in the matter. Read the entire context.

The entire passage speaks of God's creation under the curse waiting for the coming of Christ and the lifting of the curse. We wait for the redemption of our bodies Paul says.
You are blatantly wrong in your interpretation of Scripture, taking Scripture out of context.

willfully determined or disposed to go counter to what is expected or desired; contrary.

2.
characterized by or proceeding from such a determination or disposition: a perverse mood.

3.
wayward or cantankerous.

4.
persistent or obstinate in what is wrong.

5.
turned away from or rejecting what is right, good, or proper; wicked or corrupt.

Now God subjected His Creation through Adam to rejecting that which was right, to waywardness.

No God did not. Man CHOSE to rebel against God of his own free will, and brought the curse upon this world, of which we all are under to this day. Read Genesis chapter three.

The writer who may had this mind wrote Ps 90:3

Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

God did turn men into destruction--all of the Egyptian army, all of the Egyptian firstborn, and many others during the lifetime of Moses. Psalm 90 is a song of Moses. What has that got to do with anything else posted here. You just take scripture out of context without regard for anything.

So God did this in Hope ! What hope ? This Hope, the Hope of the Gospel Col 1:5,23,27

God did what in hope? Psalm 90 doesn't mention hope, and if it did it would be talking of events relating to the time of Moses.

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

Now that you have jumped a gap of over 1,400 years?????


23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

God had prepared this Hope in Vs 5 in Heaven, for some of them before the foundation Matt 25:34 [/quote]
What hope? What verse 5?

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

The Hope is also that Redemption that Christ's Death brings the whole Creation, and of course His People !

You haven't stayed on topic have you. You haven't proved a thing. You have strayed so much that your entire post is completely incomprehensible. You have taken Scripture out of context and have tried to mean what it doesn't mean. This is very sad. I don't even have to attempt to answer your other posts. This in itself is pitiful.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

Your opinion only. Not worth much at this point.

Sorry, it is what the scripture teaches. God purposed before the world began that Jesus Christ would Glorify Him by means of destroying sin and its consequences !

I challenge you to prove anything wrong or unscriptural in post 114, 115, 116, and 118

You can start with post 114. Show us what is scripturally not true !

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk asked

God did what in hope?

Subjected the Creation to vanity !

A question I have already answered, The Hope of the Gospel. God Created this World with a Gospel Hope in Christ Jesus. Col 1:5,23

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

This Hope was part of God's Eternal Purpose Eph 3:3-6,9-11

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

All things were Created by or in Jesus Christ, for this Redemptive Purpose. That is why Adam and Eve were Created, to partake in bringing this Redemptive from sin Purpose to pass, centered in Christ Jesus.

Now prove it wrong with scripture, I dare you, I know you cannot, your only recourse is to be deceptive, and twist scripture, now go ahead, do your thing before God !

 

[Yeshua1]

dhk



Sorry, it is what the scripture teaches. God purposed before the world began that Jesus Christ would Glorify Him by means of destroying sin and its consequences !

I challenge you to prove anything wrong or unscriptural in post 114, 115, 116, and 118

You can start with post 114. Show us what is scripturally not true !

I am a calvinist, and say that the bible teaches that the Lord already had ordianed/decreed in response to thecoming fall that jesus would come as the messiah, and die to atone for the sins of those chosen beforehand by tha Father, but God did NOT cause the Fall directly. IMHO!

 

[savedbymercy]

I am a calvinist, and say that the bible teaches that the Lord already had ordianed/decreed in response to thecoming fall that jesus would come as the messiah, and die to atone for the sins of those chosen beforehand by tha Father, but God did NOT cause the Fall directly. IMHO!

I challenge you to prove anything wrong or unscriptural in post 114, 115, 116, and 118

You can start with post 114. Show us what is scripturally not true !

 

[Yeshua1]

I challenge you to prove anything wrong or unscriptural in post 114, 115, 116, and 118

You can start with post 114. Show us what is scripturally not true !

God did NOT cause the falls of satan/Adam, but He DID indeed ordain the cure to the sin state they brought in his creation!

 

[DHK]

dhk



Sorry, it is what the scripture teaches. God purposed before the world began that Jesus Christ would Glorify Him by means of destroying sin and its consequences !

I challenge you to prove anything wrong or unscriptural in post 114, 115, 116, and 118

You can start with post 114. Show us what is scripturally not true !

Are you illiterate? I just posted a complete refutation of post 114 above (post #129) because of your continual harassment or begging for someone to do so. Hopefully you will give a well thought our testimony of when and where you received Christ as Savior, or if you did and I missed it, point to the URL, where you gave it.

 

[DHK]

dhk asked

Subjected the Creation to vanity !

A question I have already answered, The Hope of the Gospel. God Created this World with a Gospel Hope in Christ Jesus. Col 1:5,23

[/QUOTE]
non sequitor.

God did not subject the creation to vanity. Why do you take the Scripture and butcher it? Why do you take it out of context. Look at it from another translation (WEB)

Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of decay into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.

As in the KVJ it says "was subjected to vanity" It does not say God subjected his own creation to vanity. It says it was subjected to vanity. How, by the sin of Adam; by the curse brought on the earth by the sin of Adam.
Verse 21 But this creation will be delivered from this bondage some day.
Verse 22 In fact we know that the whole creation which now groans and travails in pain even now will be delivered.
When? When Jesus comes again! At the second coming. A day which we still look forward to, for we look for and wait for the redemption of our bodies.

You have answered nothing except how you take Scripture out of context.

 

[savedbymercy]

God did not subject the creation to vanity.

Lol, says what scripture ?

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

Are you illiterate? I just posted a complete refutation of post 114 above (post #129)

Are you illiterate, you have not refuted anything. You asked more questions than anything, that is not refuting. On top of that the questions you asked I had already answered.

All you have done is played a game of spin the bottle. Just for the sake of you saying you debated me, you picked a section of my post, spinned the bottle and asked a question, I guess the first thing that popped in your mind.

I stated that God subjected the creation in Hope, even stated what I meant by that,m The Gospel Hope, and you ask me a dumb stupid question what Hope ? And you call that debate, please, my pet frog debates better than that, and i do not even have a pet frog !

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

As in the KVJ it says "was subjected to vanity" It does not say God subjected his own creation to vanity. It says it was subjected to vanity. How, by the sin of Adam;

Did not adam wilfully sin ? If he did, then this statement disqualifies adam Rom 8:20

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Secondly, how could adam subject the creation in hope ? You are way off. God subjected His Creation to vanity in hope, because He created this World for the Hope of the Gospel ! Col 1:5

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

That Hope was laid uo for them before the foundation of the World, before Adam was Created ! It was a siritual and Heavenly Hope !

 

[Yeshua1]

dhk



Did not adam wilfully sin ? If he did, then this statement disqualifies adam Rom 8:20

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Secondly, how could adam subject the creation in hope ? You are way off. God subjected His Creation to vanity in hope, because He created this World for the Hope of the Gospel ! Col 1:5

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

That Hope was laid uo for them before the foundation of the World, before Adam was Created ! It was a siritual and Heavenly Hope !

Did God directly cause all of that, or did He already have His response to the fall and Sin problem before It ever happened?