Is healthcare a right or a privilege II

[777]

I don't care about what Mussolini did. Obamacare follows the successful approach that all other industrialized countries and many 3rd world countries have taken to achieve more efficient health care delivery. America is the worst not because of Obamacare but in spite of it. What is it with Republicans who want to deprive the needy of desperately needed health care? Maybe this?

Disposable Americans: Unworthy of Life?

According to an analysis by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, the Republican health care plan, had it passed, would have paid more in tax cuts to the richest 400 Americans than it would have paid in health insurance tax credits for 813,000 poor Americans.

Depriving vulnerable people of health care is disturbingly reminiscent of the Nazi-era "Lebensunwertes Leben"—Life Unworthy of Life, based on certain groups being a drain on resources and thus disposable to the people in power. It's a harsh interpretation of a troubled time in America. But it's an apt description of reality. Health care is a human right, not just a privilege for those with money. The merciless attacks on low-income health care programs effectively condemn thousands of people to an early death.

Rachel thinks you need to practice connecting those dots. First thing Hitler (YOU brought him up) would do after invading some country would be to enact universal healthcare coverage and he used that paper database to find groups for his holocaust.

You'd think people would figure out that giving the government this kind of power is dangerous but, nope - you don't "care" what Mussolini did, you just want to do the same thing over again.

 

[Matt Black]

Yes because that's exactly what happened in Britain after 1948....

 

[Rob_BW]

Ok, so the right to healthcare free at the point of delivery does not result in slavery. Good; we're agreed on that point

No, we do not agree. There is no right to someone else's labor.

People can willingly give it, and other people can certainly accept their charity. People in the medical profession are some of the most charitable people I know.

But that does not create a right.

 

[777]

Yes because that's exactly what happened in Britain after 1948....

It could happen in the UK yet but what's happened in your country is that your "free" healthcare system will go bankrupt with all those Muslims you keep importing and then they'll be hell to pay.

 

[Matt Black]

Many of whom work in the NHS and without whom it wouldn't survive.

Try again

 

[Matt Black]

No, we do not agree. There is no right to someone else's labor.

People can willingly give it, and other people can certainly accept their charity. People in the medical profession are some of the most charitable people I know.

But that does not create a right.

But if they are paid to do it and can quit their job, then why do we no longer agree again? Is my wife then to be considered a slave by you since she works in such a system?

 

[Rob_BW]

But if they are paid to do it and can quit their job, then why do we no longer agree again? Is my wife then to be considered a slave by you since she works in such a system?

My position:

1. A right to someone else's labor or goods is slavery.

2. Healthcare is not a right.

So where have I agreed that people have a right to healthcare?

 

[Rob_BW]

A baker is paid to bake; I don't have a right to his bread. It is a good and charitable thing to give food to the hungry, but that doesn't create a right.

How is healthcare different than bread?

 

[777]

Many of whom work in the NHS and without whom it wouldn't survive.

Try again

Many more of whom are on the dole and are going to squeeze your already doomed system dry.

Try again.

 

[Matt Black]

Our unemployment figures are the lowest they've been for years so again your point fails.

 

[Matt Black]

My position:

1. A right to someone else's labor or goods is slavery.

2. Healthcare is not a right.

So where have I agreed that people have a right to healthcare?

Your two points are separate. The second is the subject matter of the thread although it is the first that you and I are debating. By your definition in #1, a police officer is also a slave.

 

[Matt Black]

A baker is paid to bake; I don't have a right to his bread. It is a good and charitable thing to give food to the hungry, but that doesn't create a right.

How is healthcare different than bread?

If he is employed by a bakery owner to bake bread, surely he has to give it to whoever his employer directs; how the owner is paid for it and by whom is none of the employee's business, as long as the employee is paid a fair wage and is free to quit his job if he wants. No one would say that the employed baker is a slave in such circumstances so I am not sure why you are saying that a healthcare worker is.

 

[Rob_BW]

I'm not saying that anyone is a slave. I'm also not saying that I have a right to someone else's bread, medicine, or hours of labor in the medical field.

You say that my position 1 and 2 are unrelated, then you use my position 1 and your opposing belief on position to to put words in my mouth.

 

[777]

Our unemployment figures are the lowest they've been for years so again your point fails.

LOL, I never said your worthless "healthcare system" was a cause for unemployment. What I said was your system will break and good luck - you're going to need it - you showed Americans exactly what not to do.

 

[Matt Black]

No it's the immigrants who are helping to keep the system going. It's only creaking because our stingy government keeps reducing its funding and because we have an ageing population - as do you. That's the elephant in the room.

 

[Revmitchell]

No it's the immigrants who are helping to keep the system going. It's only creaking because our stingy government keeps reducing its funding and because we have an ageing population - as do you. That's the elephant in the room.

The government cannot be stingy as it does not own anything or possess anything.

 

[just-want-peace]

Why are you slandering me by saying I compared your wife to a slave?

Desperation!!! Can't dispute facts of actual crumbling of GOO

The government cannot be stingy as it does not own anything or possess anything.

Oh, but it can be stingy with what it collects in taxes (read legalized robbery )!

 

[Matt Black]

So is it robbery to pay taxes for the military?

 

[InTheLight]

So is it robbery to pay taxes for the military?

Of course not.
Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution.



Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

 

[Matt Black]

Right, Ok, so can we put to sleep this idea that "taxes are robbery" and stop gerbilling hysterically about it.