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Is it bad to go to Church on Sundays, why do some now say its Saturday only ?
- Thread starter TaliOrlando
- Start date
I'm not grace56, but I'll take a shot at this. Despite the fact that grave 56 misspelled "recognize", and wrote "there" when she meant "their", I see no riddle, here (unlike in the words "In the Sabbath's fullness of daylight it being", or "Seventh-Day-Sabbath-of-the-LORD-your-God", which happens to be absolutely nothing of the Song of Moses and the Lamb (Rev. 15:3-4), and which words are not anywhere close to being found in any version of Scripture I've ever seen, and I have checked more than 25 versions, FTR) I had no difficulty understanding this perfectly. So here goes -Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
It seems to me the ones who insist on a Saturday Sabbath,
While 'Saturday' apparently is and always been the Sabbath (assuming, of course, that what we call 'Saturday' is the seventh day, and no error in history was ever made, as to "losing" or "gaining" one or more days, where in fact, for example the second day is actually the fourth day, were one able to have a complete and valid calender, since that time of Genesis 1, I believe she means insisting on 'worshipping' on that day. The 'Biblical' "day" starts at sundown or "evening", regardless of our current clocks. There is nothing that has ever been said in Scripture to override this, from creation, of which I am aware. So the question becomes one of insisting on worshipping between what we would say is 'sundown' on Friday evening, until 'sundown' on Saturday PM.
are still waiting for their Messiah.
Generally, the Jews are still waiting. (Jn. 4:25; 7:41-43)
They didn't reconise (sic) Him when He came,
Most Jews did not. (Lk. 19:44; Jn. 7)
there (sic) eyes were and are still blinded.
Yep. (Jn. 12:40; Rom. 11:7, 25; II Cor. 3:14)
BTW, a belated welcome to the BB, grace56. :thumbs:
Ed
Last edited by a moderator:
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
TaliOrlando said:
The issue lies here. The sabbath was celebrated on saturday which was from sun down on friday to sun down on saturday. Christians began to meet on sunday because that was the day that the Lord rose from the dead. Though there was a little debate about it in the early church. The bigger debate in the early church was whether they should celebrate Easter using the Roman Calander which the Alexandrians and the Romans used or celebrate it on Passover which the eastern churches primarily did. Polycarp agreed to disagree with the episcopal at Rome about this matter. The switch from sabbath to sunday was earlier and more accepted in the church. Is that helpful?
Alive in Christ
New Member
There is no day that is any more special or "holier" than any other. There was during the old testament period, but not now. Not Saturday, not Sunday, not any day.
We are instructed to gather regularly with other believers. Period. The days or days we do that are 100% irrelavent.
:godisgood:
We are instructed to gather regularly with other believers. Period. The days or days we do that are 100% irrelavent.
:godisgood:
Thinkingstuff said:
GE:
You are talking of after the Apostolic Church, so, is irrelevant.
You do however refer to the 'switch from sabbath to sunday', which I propose during the apostolic age, FAILED, as is clear from the the NT as such, Galatians 4:10 being the only inference to Sunday-observance that tried to make its inroads into Christianity. Paul's admonition obviously had been heeded.
But let us take it one step at a time. First DHK's 'Daily' worship by the early Church. Refer the archives for my answers there. But here's my answers of about thirty years ago:
The earliest Christian believers, according to their history in the Acts of the Apostles, assembled “every day” for worship. Luke’s “Acts” does not only mention the fact that the Apostolic Congregation worshiped “every day”. It further stipulates that the Church observed Passover. That implies that Christian worship “every day”, is meant generally. In Acts 2:46, the phrase stipulating the believers’ “continuing daily”with one accord in the temple, is placed as a parenthesis within the very history of their worship on the Day of Pentecost. The expression “continuing daily” is clearly used not in the sense of special, congregational and liturgical worship “continuing daily”, but refers to the believers’ “waiting” in Jerusalem as Christ had commanded them for the promise of power to be fulfilled.
The fact that 2:1 states that the believers assembled “in one place” implies that they were not always assembled in one place, and if not always in one place, then not always on every day.
In Acts 5:42 it is said that the apostles ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ daily in the temple and in “every house”. The meaning is clear that the apostles taught each day, but not each day in congregation in the temple neither each day in congregation in the believers’ homes. Had congregational teaching and preaching every day been meant, the apostles would have taught and preached in “houses” and not in “every house”. By mentioning “temple” as well as “every house” two distinct ways of preaching and teaching are implied. When they worshipped in the temple the people came to the apostles in the temple to be taught and to hear their public proclamation. When in the houses, the apostles went to the people to teach and proclaim the Gospel privately.
“The apostles in those days had to leave the Word of God and serve tables”. 6:2 Seven deacons were appointed to see after charity in order to allow the apostles to engage full time in proclaiming the Gospel. That implies that the multitude of disciples 6:1 did not worship full time, every day.
“Continuing daily” does not mean that the Church had no special day of worship. In addition to the special observance the earliest Christians bestowed on the celebration of Passover, Acts also records the gathering of the Christian Body on a Sunday (The First Day) and on Sabbaths (Saturdays).
Two Days
Had not Luke recorded that the Church gathered for worship on specific occasions, one might have been more inclined to deduce from the disciple’s use to “continue every day”, that they deemed “all days alike”. (Paul) But now the distinction had been made: certain days were selected and separated from other days of the year and from other days of the week, as days of Christian dedication and worship. Two weekdays are notably distinguished in terms of being mentioned in the Acts, the “Sabbath” and the “First Day of the week”. No other days of the week are called by name in Acts. That makes the mention of these two days singular and significant. Only these two days of the week, the Sabbath and Sunday, are in the Acts indicated by name and at the same time are associated with congregation of Christian believers. From this fact arises the question, Were both these days in the same manner associated with congregation, worship and proclamation of the Gospel? Were both days “holy”, that is, “put apart” for the purpose of worship? Were both days liturgical? Or was one only? And in what manner would the First Day and the Sabbath be similar to both be “holy”, or different both not to be “holy”? Which of the two days was the real Day of Worship for the Church and, what for Christians was the basic motive for its “keeping”? Were both days, celebrated Christian Feast Days? These questions are clearly answered when the relevant Scripture passages are consulted. Acts as such supplies the answers. We will not enter into argument rooted in any time after the time of the lives of the people involved – the apostles, or any time after the time of the recording of their acts. It is not necessary at all to go to later times than Luke’s own time, the time of the origin of Acts to find out which day of the week the Christian day of worship used to be then.
The chapters in Acts which mention these two days of the week, are, respecting Sunday (“First Day of the week”), 20(:7); respecting “Sabbath” (Saturday), 13(:14, 42, 44); 16(:13); 17(:2); 18(:4). There is, though, also Acts 2:1 to 4:3. This passage does not supply the name of the day of the week that the event recorded there occurred on. Yet it tells of a day on which, 1, God acted in such a manner, and, 2, the first Christians acted in such a manner and had such an experience, that the attributes and qualities of the Christian Day of Worship are made unmistakably recognisable. Acts does not say the things that characterise the Christian Day of worship happened “on Sunday”, or, “on the Sabbath”, but it without doubt presupposes the Christian Day of Worship. Which of Sunday and the Sabbath could this day have been? If this day had been the first Christians’ Day of Worship, it follows that where their Day of Worship might elsewhere in Acts be described, it would be described there, as it isdescribed in chapter Two. Corresponding passages in Acts must supply the answer to the question which day of the week the very first Christian Day of Worship that started the Church’s era was.
7.1.1.
“Every Day”
“Every Day”
The earliest Christian believers, according to their history in the Acts of the Apostles, assembled “every day” for worship. Luke’s “Acts” does not only mention the fact that the Apostolic Congregation worshiped “every day”. It further stipulates that the Church observed Passover. That implies that Christian worship “every day”, is meant generally. In Acts 2:46, the phrase stipulating the believers’ “continuing daily”with one accord in the temple, is placed as a parenthesis within the very history of their worship on the Day of Pentecost. The expression “continuing daily” is clearly used not in the sense of special, congregational and liturgical worship “continuing daily”, but refers to the believers’ “waiting” in Jerusalem as Christ had commanded them for the promise of power to be fulfilled.
The fact that 2:1 states that the believers assembled “in one place” implies that they were not always assembled in one place, and if not always in one place, then not always on every day.
In Acts 5:42 it is said that the apostles ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ daily in the temple and in “every house”. The meaning is clear that the apostles taught each day, but not each day in congregation in the temple neither each day in congregation in the believers’ homes. Had congregational teaching and preaching every day been meant, the apostles would have taught and preached in “houses” and not in “every house”. By mentioning “temple” as well as “every house” two distinct ways of preaching and teaching are implied. When they worshipped in the temple the people came to the apostles in the temple to be taught and to hear their public proclamation. When in the houses, the apostles went to the people to teach and proclaim the Gospel privately.
“The apostles in those days had to leave the Word of God and serve tables”. 6:2 Seven deacons were appointed to see after charity in order to allow the apostles to engage full time in proclaiming the Gospel. That implies that the multitude of disciples 6:1 did not worship full time, every day.
“Continuing daily” does not mean that the Church had no special day of worship. In addition to the special observance the earliest Christians bestowed on the celebration of Passover, Acts also records the gathering of the Christian Body on a Sunday (The First Day) and on Sabbaths (Saturdays).
7.1.1.1.
Two Days
Had not Luke recorded that the Church gathered for worship on specific occasions, one might have been more inclined to deduce from the disciple’s use to “continue every day”, that they deemed “all days alike”. (Paul) But now the distinction had been made: certain days were selected and separated from other days of the year and from other days of the week, as days of Christian dedication and worship. Two weekdays are notably distinguished in terms of being mentioned in the Acts, the “Sabbath” and the “First Day of the week”. No other days of the week are called by name in Acts. That makes the mention of these two days singular and significant. Only these two days of the week, the Sabbath and Sunday, are in the Acts indicated by name and at the same time are associated with congregation of Christian believers. From this fact arises the question, Were both these days in the same manner associated with congregation, worship and proclamation of the Gospel? Were both days “holy”, that is, “put apart” for the purpose of worship? Were both days liturgical? Or was one only? And in what manner would the First Day and the Sabbath be similar to both be “holy”, or different both not to be “holy”? Which of the two days was the real Day of Worship for the Church and, what for Christians was the basic motive for its “keeping”? Were both days, celebrated Christian Feast Days? These questions are clearly answered when the relevant Scripture passages are consulted. Acts as such supplies the answers. We will not enter into argument rooted in any time after the time of the lives of the people involved – the apostles, or any time after the time of the recording of their acts. It is not necessary at all to go to later times than Luke’s own time, the time of the origin of Acts to find out which day of the week the Christian day of worship used to be then.
The chapters in Acts which mention these two days of the week, are, respecting Sunday (“First Day of the week”), 20(:7); respecting “Sabbath” (Saturday), 13(:14, 42, 44); 16(:13); 17(:2); 18(:4). There is, though, also Acts 2:1 to 4:3. This passage does not supply the name of the day of the week that the event recorded there occurred on. Yet it tells of a day on which, 1, God acted in such a manner, and, 2, the first Christians acted in such a manner and had such an experience, that the attributes and qualities of the Christian Day of Worship are made unmistakably recognisable. Acts does not say the things that characterise the Christian Day of worship happened “on Sunday”, or, “on the Sabbath”, but it without doubt presupposes the Christian Day of Worship. Which of Sunday and the Sabbath could this day have been? If this day had been the first Christians’ Day of Worship, it follows that where their Day of Worship might elsewhere in Acts be described, it would be described there, as it isdescribed in chapter Two. Corresponding passages in Acts must supply the answer to the question which day of the week the very first Christian Day of Worship that started the Church’s era was.
7.1.1.2.
The Week
Acts distinguishes the two days, the “Sabbath”, and the “First Day”, in terms of their relation to the periodic concept, “week”. The Sabbath is designated sabbaton – “the Cessation / Finishing / Rest / Last (of Seven Days)”, and Sunday is designated mia sabbatohn – “The First of days numbered (sequentially and not consequentially) with reference to the Sabbath”. That implies that the “week” – the seven days cycle of Jewish and Biblical origin and worldview, was the time-regulation according to which the first Christians ordered their lives and their life of faith in the Christ. And that again implies that they, as Christians and as Congregation, excepted and distinguished times and days to the Old Testament institutional order and to no seasonal, astrological or arbitrary, heathen, cycle of days. From the time-regulatory institution of the “Bible-week” the first Christians exempted and selected days for the specific purpose of the worship of Jesus Christ, Lord and Head of the Body his Church. That means, certain days of the week were “secular”, and certain, “holy” to them, i.e., dedicated to “worship”.
7.1.1.3.1.
Acts 2:1 to 4:3, One Day
Acts 2:1 to 4:3 covers one event of the one Day of Pentecost. It is not the second chapter of Acts only that deals with the events of the Day of Pentecost. The section starts with, “on the to be completed Day of Pentecost” – en tohi sumplehrousthai tehn hehmeran tehs pentekostehs, 2:1. The first series of events centre around the morning about 9 a.m. (2:15), and starts in the “one (sacred) place” (“The place” was the prophetic venue. See further on.). This first sequence of events concludes with Peter’s declaration, “Repent” et cetera and the mention of the number baptised that Day, verse 41. Then a few things are mentioned by the way for the sake of clarity and perspective on the events of the day (verses 42 to 47). This is not the end of the day’s events though. More follows in chapter 3. It now is afternoon 3 p.m. and time for assembling in the temple for the hour of prayer (verse 1). Peter and John attended. Then they through healing the lame man by way of illustration, taught what they all morning had taught by preaching the Word. In this act of healing they showed and confirmed the power of the Christ whom they had been preaching all day. They through the new freedom the lame man received showed and confirmed the joy of forgiveness for sins – the heart of the Pentecostal message.
Then follows, verses 12 and further, a speech very similar to that of the morning. They preach in the temple now, and soon meet with opposition. Because it now is late afternoon (“vespers”) the disciples are not dealt with immediately but are held in custody until the next day (4:1-3). The Day of Pentecost was the day involved all along, from 2:1 to 4:3.
Is it the Christian Day of Worship of which this passage in Acts tells? This question should be answered at the hand of the deepest reasons for being of the Christian Faith.
7.1.1.3.2.
Fully Come
On determined points in time the revelation of God culminates in fulfilment of his promises to his people. For the earliest believers such an occasion arrived “when the day of Pentecost was fully come”. The Christians found themselves “all with one accord in one place”. 2:1 The Church of later times with both hands takes hold on this event as the example of and norm for time of worship for “whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord”. 2:21 “Calling on the name of the Lord” – that, is Christian worship. And this incidence of first, corporate calling on the name of the Lord, by believers in congregation at appointed time, sets the pattern for all time to come. The Church grasps at this reference to the assembling of the earliest believers because every detail of the occasion points and answers to the essentials and attributes of the Day as the Christian Day and Feast of Worship.
7.1.1.3.3.
The Promise
“Pentecost” (Fiftieth Day after seven weeks, “counted from the day after the sabbath” (of Passover, 15th Nisan) was the acme to which the “Feast of Weeks” accrued. Here the first Congregation finds itself in communion within a time-order disposed by God in fulfilment of his Word. The Church’s time is demarcated in weeks, in cycles of seven days to the order of original divine creation and salvation. It is not at all per accident that Christ’s first disciples all, with one accord, on this day, the last Day of the Feast of Weeks, or, Fiftieth Day, “came together”. On this day, “This Jesus”,“having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, sheds forth this, which ye now, see and hear”.2:31,33 “This”, was the assembling and proclamation of the disciples then, through the Holy Spirit, realised on the condition of God’s promise: this Jesus – the Resurrected from the dead. “This Jesus”, “having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, shedding forth this, which ye now, see and hear”, makes Pentecost, to the date and day of God’s design, “fully come”. It is the real and fullest fulfilment of the meaning of the Feast of Weeks. Passover reaches its last milestone. The First Sheaf of the earth had become the harvest’s First Loaves of Bread. The Sheaf had become the Meal. Christ The Risen, creates his Body and through his Spirit gives it life. “This is the Day the Lord has made, let us rejoice in it ... The voice of rejoicing and salvation in the tabernacles of righteousness: The right hand of the Lord doeth valiantly. I shall not die, but live and declare the works of the Lord. Open to me the gates of righteousness … This gate is of the Lord into which the righteous shall enter. I will praise thee for thou hast heard me and art become my salvation. The stone the builders refused is become the headstone of the corner... Ps. 118:24, 15-22 We are singing of the Church of Christ born of the Holy Spirit.
7.1.1.3.4.
After his resurrection Jesus ordered his disciples, “Wait for the Father’s promise”. They had to wait until the weeks were fulfilled before they would be “endowed with power from above” by the Holy Spirit. The believers, through the working of the Spirit, come together, on strength of Jesus’ resurrection. On strength of Jesus’ resurrection: because this thing would simply not have happened had Jesus not been resurrected and because the resurrected Christ, is the Father’s whole promise. As is the resurrection of Christ, the assembling of these, as one, in one place, and in one faith, is the realisation of the promise of the Holy Spirit: “This Jesus God raised up … therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and He having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, sheds forth this, which yenow see and hear … whereof we all are witnesses”.
This is the “gift of the Holy Spirit” that witnesses as the Body of Christ. This is the gift of The Covenanted Promise. “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly …”. “Each in his own language, hear!”
Behind the assembling in unison of Christian believers there was the Spirit through whom they are become witnesses – witnesses of Jesus Resurrected, verse 31:- This is the gift of the Promise of the Holy Spirit. “With great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.”This is the gift of the Holy Spirit distinctly promised and clearly and exclusively witnessed to. It is the witness of the Christ, the Christ resurrected – resurrected and exalted at the right hand of the Father in the Most Holy Place of the heavenly Sanctuary.
The “power” which Christ commanded his disciples to wait for “from above” is here manifested and witnessed to as the power that raised Jesus from the dead. It is called a “great power”. Indeed it was the “exceeding greatness” of God’s power – the only “power” “according to his working” that could “finish God’s works which He had made” Gn.2:1-3 the only “power” that could “put all things under his feet and give him to be head over all things”, “finishing” all God’s works. It is the power of “the fullness of Him that fulfils all in all”, Eph.1:19-23. God’s “fullness of time” is God’s fullness of all his works. Without the one the other is not “fullness” properly, is not “finished” yet, not “fully come”, not “perfected”, not that which surpasses the “very good” of the Sixth Day, has not “entered into the rest” of the Seventh Day yet. This is the power of creation – the power that has entered into the rest fully, God’s power of the Seventh Day employed optimally, “finishing” “all his works he had made” – He ever was employed in. It is the power of redemption. This is God’s “rest”, the greatest of his works, his ultimate rest … the power to raise Jesus from the dead! For this purpose God created the Day. In this sense only the Lord declares was the Sabbath made for man.
7.1.1.3.5.
Congregation – of one accord, plenary and witnessing, in the power of the Spirit of Christ: the Crucified and Resurrected: This entails the Day of Christian Festivity, of Christian Rest and of Christian Worship. Without this divine, work, there would be no rest and no Sabbath. “This which ye now see and hear”, is the “Promise” to the Church of Christ and this is the Day of Christ-Promise, fulfilled. Without this Day – indeed the Lord’s Day “fully come” – there would be no Day of Rest and Worship and no Body “gathered”, but the endless sequence of ordinary days of a scattered and toiling, sighing and yearning flock without Shepherd.
“This which ye now see and hear”, is God’s rest. It is God in the Son, and in his Body the Church, “entered into his own rest”, “fully”. Without the Son, God had never rested, had never fulfilled, had never “finished”. Divine act, the act of rest, first in the Son, then in the sons, Spirit and Entity, Body and life, Feast of harvested Sheaf made Bread,inseparable from Endowment and Day, from Meeting and Feast – inseparable from the Day of Pentecost, the Day of God’s acting and resting.
This is the witness of the Holy Spirit of Promise – the Promise of the Christ resurrected from the dead, which the Church since the time of Justin has for eighteen hundred and fifty years denied God’s Sabbath Day and has consecrated to the Day of the Sun.
7.1.1.3.6.
Who are these joyous, these feasting, these freemen and freed, on the Day the Lord has made “fully come”? Who is this Body? Because it is promised: “In the last days it shall come to pass, saith the Lord, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh… and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy … and it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.17-18, 21 Those, “whosoever” were these sojourners at Jerusalem – “all Israel” “hearing” and “seeing” “this thing”. They, “whosoever”, were “Jews, devout (Jews) from every nation under heaven “come together”. These “whosoever”, “every one “heard” (the apostles) speak in his own tongue. These “whosoever”, were these Jews who “each in his own language, our own in which we of (Jewish) nativity … heard the wonderful works of God? … What meaneth this?” 5, 6, 11, 12 … for us, “whosoever” “in this place”, “of one heart” and “of a kin”, “assembled” being “inhabitants of Jerusalem”? What meaneth this for us? The answer comes: “This is that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel!” 16 The congregation and the witness, in fact, the proclamation of God’s wonderful works in Christ Jesus, reaches fulfilment in reaching all of the house of Israel. God is faithful to his word. He keeps his promise to his people and finishes his works. Christ is raised. And the body of Christ is created within the people to whom belong the promises and the covenant and the law. (Paul) “The same day there were added to them about three thousand souls.” “To them”, that is, to “Israel” were added these of spiritual lineage, the Israel of the last days. That, makes of “them”, the “Church”, and that, makes of the Day of Pentecost, the Christian Day of Worship. Acts 2 supplies the clearest and most definite indication of Christian Worship, of the Day of Christian worship and of the inseparability of Christian Worship and Christian Day of worship.
7.1.1.3.7.
We thus far know for sure that the Day involved was, 1, a day designated as a day of the Week. See Part Two, Par. 6.6.3. The “week” determined by the “Seventh Day-Sabbath” by creation-order. We know for sure that it was, 2, the Day after the seventh seventh day of the Feast of Weeks, The Fiftieth Day, “Pentecost” by Covenanted order. We know for sure that, 3, it was the day of fulfilment and finishing of God’s Word of Promise; and that, 4, the Congregation kept this Day by Christian order. The Church observes this Day. Having received it from the Old Testament Christ having promised it, the Church now designates this Day of First Bread Wave Offering the first time fulfilled, to the Christ as the day of his worship. He, being appointed (the “Lamb slain from the foundation of the world”), slaughtered this Passover, exalted in being raised from the dead this First Sheaf of the beginning of harvest, and glorified in his Body on earth being created this First Bread of completion of the harvest, the Fiftieth Day – He was anointed the Christ He being thefulfilmentof the Father’s promise, this Day, the Sabbath. “If the First Fruit be holy, the lump also”, Ro.11,16!
The Church worshipped every day and is supposed to worship every day still, is what DHK claims, because of the single word, 'daily', in Acts2:46.
That is taking the word and the text out of context, and immediately implies the corruption of the meaning of both.
Read the section from verse 41 to 3:1, e.g., and the illegitimacy of DHK's claim becomes clear.
Those first Christian on Pentecost were together "in one place", which we do not know was which, but it was not the temple or the synagogue, as it seems.
Then 2:41 says "the same day" - Pentecost - about 3000 were added. 42: "and they continued ...." to gather in that same place? verse 44 "all who believed were together ..." still in that same place? 45: "Sold their possessions ... " nowhere else left for them to worship than this 'place'? AND SO: 46, "The continued daily ....", BUT OH MY! it says, "In the temple"! So the Church always every day worshipped, then every day it had to be in the TEMPLE! NOW: What about their assembling in that 'old' place of theirs? What about their congregations in the homes of some believers? IT WAS EVERY DAY IN THE TEMPLE, remember! So taday still the Christian Church should be found in the Jewish temple. But strangest of all, NOT keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath. That is what it means, according to DHK's single-word-argument of 'daily'.
And so on ad nauseam, as I said, refer to previous threads on this very Board.
That is taking the word and the text out of context, and immediately implies the corruption of the meaning of both.
Read the section from verse 41 to 3:1, e.g., and the illegitimacy of DHK's claim becomes clear.
Those first Christian on Pentecost were together "in one place", which we do not know was which, but it was not the temple or the synagogue, as it seems.
Then 2:41 says "the same day" - Pentecost - about 3000 were added. 42: "and they continued ...." to gather in that same place? verse 44 "all who believed were together ..." still in that same place? 45: "Sold their possessions ... " nowhere else left for them to worship than this 'place'? AND SO: 46, "The continued daily ....", BUT OH MY! it says, "In the temple"! So the Church always every day worshipped, then every day it had to be in the TEMPLE! NOW: What about their assembling in that 'old' place of theirs? What about their congregations in the homes of some believers? IT WAS EVERY DAY IN THE TEMPLE, remember! So taday still the Christian Church should be found in the Jewish temple. But strangest of all, NOT keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath. That is what it means, according to DHK's single-word-argument of 'daily'.
And so on ad nauseam, as I said, refer to previous threads on this very Board.
grace56 said:
GE:
Never mind the "L-a-n-g-a-u-g-e Cop", Grace, that is how we all have come to know Ed Sutton.
Ed Sutton:
"I'm not grace56, but I'll take a shot at this. Despite the fact that grave 56 misspelled "recognize", and wrote "there" when she meant "their", I see no riddle, here (unlike in the words "In the Sabbath's fullness of daylight it being", or "Seventh-Day-Sabbath-of-the-LORD-your-God", which happens to be absolutely nothing of the Song of Moses and the Lamb (Rev. 15:3-4), and which words are not anywhere close to being found in any version of Scripture I've ever seen, and I have checked more than 25 versions, FTR) I had no difficulty understanding this perfectly."
GE:
You mean, Ed Sutton, yo have NOT understood a thing. It is unfortunate. Because I know it won't help, I shall not refer you to of the best Christian preachers of God's Word, like Jonathan Edwards, Calvin, James Chrystie, Karl Barth. (You will find few names mentioned by my repeatedly, for I have not that wide reading experience you have. You know, I all these years read only ONE Bible. How come, I cannot say.)
"I'm not grace56, but I'll take a shot at this. Despite the fact that grave 56 misspelled "recognize", and wrote "there" when she meant "their", I see no riddle, here (unlike in the words "In the Sabbath's fullness of daylight it being", or "Seventh-Day-Sabbath-of-the-LORD-your-God", which happens to be absolutely nothing of the Song of Moses and the Lamb (Rev. 15:3-4), and which words are not anywhere close to being found in any version of Scripture I've ever seen, and I have checked more than 25 versions, FTR) I had no difficulty understanding this perfectly."
GE:
You mean, Ed Sutton, yo have NOT understood a thing. It is unfortunate. Because I know it won't help, I shall not refer you to of the best Christian preachers of God's Word, like Jonathan Edwards, Calvin, James Chrystie, Karl Barth. (You will find few names mentioned by my repeatedly, for I have not that wide reading experience you have. You know, I all these years read only ONE Bible. How come, I cannot say.)
Ed Sutton:
"While 'Saturday' apparently is and always been the Sabbath (assuming, of course, that what we call 'Saturday' is the seventh day, and no error in history was ever made, as to "losing" or "gaining" one or more days, where in fact, for example the second day is actually the fourth day, were one able to have a complete and valid calender, since that time of Genesis 1, I believe she means insisting on 'worshipping' on that day. The 'Biblical' "day" starts at sundown or "evening", regardless of our current clocks. There is nothing that has ever been said in Scripture to override this, from creation, of which I am aware. So the question becomes one of insisting on worshipping between what we would say is 'sundown' on Friday evening, until 'sundown' on Saturday PM. "
GE:
I do like this statement of yours, Ed Sutoon! No comment I could give could have improved on its own comment. But if I were your professor at school, I would have given you not one mark in blue for its worth.
"While 'Saturday' apparently is and always been the Sabbath (assuming, of course, that what we call 'Saturday' is the seventh day, and no error in history was ever made, as to "losing" or "gaining" one or more days, where in fact, for example the second day is actually the fourth day, were one able to have a complete and valid calender, since that time of Genesis 1, I believe she means insisting on 'worshipping' on that day. The 'Biblical' "day" starts at sundown or "evening", regardless of our current clocks. There is nothing that has ever been said in Scripture to override this, from creation, of which I am aware. So the question becomes one of insisting on worshipping between what we would say is 'sundown' on Friday evening, until 'sundown' on Saturday PM. "
GE:
I do like this statement of yours, Ed Sutoon! No comment I could give could have improved on its own comment. But if I were your professor at school, I would have given you not one mark in blue for its worth.
"While 'Saturday' apparently is and always been the Sabbath ..." Huh?
"... (assuming, of course, that what we call 'Saturday' is the seventh day, and no error in history was ever made, as to "losing" or "gaining" one or more days ..." Huh??
"... where in fact, for example the second day is actually the fourth day, were one able to have a complete and valid calender, since that time of Genesis 1 ..." Huh???
"... I believe she means insisting on 'worshipping' on that day ..." ?
"... The 'Biblical' "day" starts at sundown or "evening", regardless of our current clocks. There is nothing that has ever been said in Scripture to override this, from creation, of which I am aware ..." So what?
"... So the question becomes one of insisting on worshipping between what we would say is 'sundown' on Friday evening, until 'sundown' on Saturday PM." WHAT QUESTION? besides being totally irrelevant.
"... (assuming, of course, that what we call 'Saturday' is the seventh day, and no error in history was ever made, as to "losing" or "gaining" one or more days ..." Huh??
"... where in fact, for example the second day is actually the fourth day, were one able to have a complete and valid calender, since that time of Genesis 1 ..." Huh???
"... I believe she means insisting on 'worshipping' on that day ..." ?
"... The 'Biblical' "day" starts at sundown or "evening", regardless of our current clocks. There is nothing that has ever been said in Scripture to override this, from creation, of which I am aware ..." So what?
"... So the question becomes one of insisting on worshipping between what we would say is 'sundown' on Friday evening, until 'sundown' on Saturday PM." WHAT QUESTION? besides being totally irrelevant.
annsni:
"the early church would celebrate the Lord's Day - the first day of the week"
GE:
More easy to say than show.
Cordially invited!
"the early church would celebrate the Lord's Day - the first day of the week"
GE:
More easy to say than show.
Cordially invited!
annsni:
"EVERY day is the Lord's Day. I think that it's important to set aside a day for corporate worship, fellowship and teaching."
GE:
The 'Lord's', Day is 'The Lord's Day' BECAUSE, set aside THE day for and of corporate worship of the Lord through fellowship and teaching.
You have supplied a very handy explanation of which day and what day the Lord's Day is; with thanks!
"EVERY day is the Lord's Day. I think that it's important to set aside a day for corporate worship, fellowship and teaching."
GE:
The 'Lord's', Day is 'The Lord's Day' BECAUSE, set aside THE day for and of corporate worship of the Lord through fellowship and teaching.
You have supplied a very handy explanation of which day and what day the Lord's Day is; with thanks!
annsni:
"We do that on Sunday. I have no reservations in my mind that it is what God desires."
GE:
I appreciate your honest concern; let no one - not me - judge you in that! God knows the heart and that is all God wants to know. Not how clever anyone can get.
Nevertheless, while you are sincere, the more is it your duty to be able to answer, HOW you concluded, "We do that on Sunday", because "that it is what God desires"? 'On Sunday ... because God desires'?
I have just one question: Scripture, please? Then I shall believe you it is God's 'desire'! You may have no reservations in your mind, but I have this thorn in the flesh: Scripture!?
"We do that on Sunday. I have no reservations in my mind that it is what God desires."
GE:
I appreciate your honest concern; let no one - not me - judge you in that! God knows the heart and that is all God wants to know. Not how clever anyone can get.
Nevertheless, while you are sincere, the more is it your duty to be able to answer, HOW you concluded, "We do that on Sunday", because "that it is what God desires"? 'On Sunday ... because God desires'?
I have just one question: Scripture, please? Then I shall believe you it is God's 'desire'! You may have no reservations in your mind, but I have this thorn in the flesh: Scripture!?
Marcia said:
GE:
We say 'Saturday,, 'Sunday' etc. without worshipping, but to communicate, simply. God knows the intentions of the heart.
Yet was I shocked to learn how great numbers of 'Christian' peoples literally idolatrously do 'worship' - like their pagan forebears did. They even still make sacrifices and 'paratehrein'-'divine' the entrails. They rip the heart from the victim and hold it to the upcoming sun of the first day of the new year! and things like that. And for a Christian that is OK? I'm not talking of Peruvians only; I'm talking of several Scandinavian nations. Even the English. I'm thinking of confessing Christian 'stars' who worship Buddha and undertake journeys to greet the upcoming sun from the heights of the pagan gods. LIVE, today, Christians!
And we say we are Christians, "venerating" "the Lord Sun's Day"? But that is NOTHING; wait till we start DEFENDING that Sun'sday with the Bible!
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I have read but one book on New Age Christianity. I believe it is taking the world by storm. I guess the idolatry implied in the 'Sunday-question' has to do with it. I actually know nothing; neither am interested to learn more. I don't need 'research' in that direction. I'll stick to researching the Bible; like my ancestors die ou Boere in a wilderness of open spaces and stillness, they and God's Word. So some of them got to know the true Lord's Day, and began to worship Christ of the Seventh Day Sabbath. Then arrived the Seventh Day Adventists from America, and contaminated their pure religion with false doctrine. That was almost a fatal blow to the simple truths about the Sabbath Day, that world wide through the Seventh Day Adventists swung the 'Sabbath-question' into the one track lane of legalism. It was a sad sad day!