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Is it bad to go to Church on Sundays, why do some now say its Saturday only ?
- Thread starter TaliOrlando
- Start date
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Sorry - the "this is what God desires" is not that we worship on Sunday but that we DO worship Him one day a week. For the Christians today, that day is usually Sunday (although I do understand those who choose Saturday). For those who cannot go to church on Sunday for whatever reason (usually work related - emergency and medical personnel), they should find another day to do this - maybe finding a Saturday night service - or a Saturday morning service with a like minded Seventh Day church.
God desires our hearts EVERY day but it is important to be involved in a church where we can corporately worship, learn and fellowship together.Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
The early Church fathers - from as early as the second century all spoke of the Lord's Day as being a day of worship. Justin Martyr, Ignatius, Melito, Tertullian, and Origen all mention it. I think they'd know about the early church since they were involved in it.
annsni said:Sorry - the "this is what God desires" is not that we worship on Sunday but that we DO worship Him one day a week. For the Christians today, that day is usually Sunday (although I do understand those who choose Saturday). For those who cannot go to church on Sunday for whatever reason (usually work related - emergency and medical personnel), they should find another day to do this - maybe finding a Saturday night service - or a Saturday morning service with a like minded Seventh Day church.
GE:
I say this sincerely, in deep sympathy with you (not with your standpoint): Have you ever considered how utterly legalistic your standpoint is?
There are many things that make up 'legalism'. The first ever and anon is to replace the Commandment of God with one's own. I therefore return to you my same question: 'Scripture, please?', for stating catagorically (which is for stating ever so legalistically as before):
""this is what God desires" is not that we worship on Sunday but that we DO worship Him one day a week."
Also think about this glaring contradiction:
""this is what God desires" is not that we worship on Sunday but that we DO worship Him one day a week",
versus,
"God desires our hearts EVERY day but it is important to be involved in a church where we can corporately worship, learn and fellowship together."
""this is what God desires" is not that we worship on Sunday but that we DO worship Him one day a week",
versus,
"God desires our hearts EVERY day but it is important to be involved in a church where we can corporately worship, learn and fellowship together."
The solution lies in this, that there is no such thing as 'Church' or to be the Church, or to paticipate in Church, or to Congregate as the Body of Christ's Own or whatever not in the same event also to be 'Sabbatising' (to use an expression of Ignatius the martyr) according to the Lord's Life"; not "ON THE SABBATH" to be what these things indicate; that is, not utterly to BE, a Christian, "Sabbaths' celebrating", as Paul describes the very same in Col2, and Luke in Acts13:44, "On the To-Hear-the-Word-of-God-Sabbath-Day"!
trustitl said:
GE:
Now mark how legalism and legalists make of the Word freedom the word bondage, while blind as lowest dungeon of misery for the Light's enlightened Body, that casts indelible ineffaceable indomitable "spectre-of-things-a-coming-which-is-the-Body-of-Christ's-Own ... growing with the growth of God"!
Christianity has not yet begun thinking on the Sabbath.
annsni said:
GE:
"spoke of the Lord's Day as being a day of worship." ... Absolutely! You can show me one instance "as early as the second century" as for being Sunday? You cannot. I know these writings; you cannot. On the contrary, I can show you they - who "as early as the second century" "wrote" - associated the Sabbath and 'the Lord's Day' as in essence being one and the same.
Only one thing in this statement of mine which is not entirely correct, and that is that I used 'they', while it was but one, Ignatius.
Therefore,
The 'Church fathers' - from as late as after the second century may perhaps all have spoken of 'The Lord's day', as being THE day of worship, like, maybe, Melito, Tertullian, and Origen, BUT, for Justin Martyr and Ignatius. Because, Justin Martyr did not at all write 'the Lord's Day', but, "The Day of the SUN". And Justin, as I have already referred to, who associated the Seventh Day Sabbath of the OLD Testament "Christian-prophets" whose "Sabbatising was according to the Lord (Jesus') LIFE"!
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
From Justin Martyr's First Apology:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html
CHAPTER LXVII -- WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRIS- TIANS.
And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
Who denied? You MAY expect everything pro-Sanday in here, even that perverting concoction of the Truth, "on the day called Sunday we come together"; and "on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun"; "Sunday the same day on which Jesus Christ rose from the dead", for Matthew's "In /on the Sabbath Day BEFORE the First Day"
and,
"He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday)" and of course meant, buried, for Mark's crucified on the day BEFORE "the day before that of Saturn", i.e., crucified BEFORE, Friday (on which Jesus was buried, 15:42&Mt27:57), BEGAN.
"There is NO FEAR" before God even in his judgment! So 'they' simply CHANGED Mk15:42&Mt27:57 into BEFORE DAY ENDED. Justin Martyr! Compare KJV and NIV and see for yourself.
and,
"He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday)" and of course meant, buried, for Mark's crucified on the day BEFORE "the day before that of Saturn", i.e., crucified BEFORE, Friday (on which Jesus was buried, 15:42&Mt27:57), BEGAN.
"There is NO FEAR" before God even in his judgment! So 'they' simply CHANGED Mk15:42&Mt27:57 into BEFORE DAY ENDED. Justin Martyr! Compare KJV and NIV and see for yourself.
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AD 90: "One the Lord's own day gather together and break bread and give thanks." Didache, 14:1
AD 107: "Let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days." St. Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, Chapter IX
AD 130: "Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me... Wherefore, we keep... the day... on which Jesus rose again from the dead." Epistle of Barnabas, Chapter XV
AD 160: "There is no other thing for which you blame us, my friends [speaking to the Jews], is there than this? That we do not live according to the Law, nor... do we observe the Sabbath as you do."
"For we to would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you - namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts."
"But the Gentiles, who have believed on Him, and have repented on the sins which they have committed, they shall received the inheritanc... although they neither keep the Sabbath, nor are circumised, nor observe the feasts." St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue wit Trypho, Chapters X, XVIII, and XXVI.
AD 190: "He, fulfillment of the precept, according to the Gospel, keeps the Lord's day... glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself." Clement of Alexandria, The Stromata, Book VII, Chapter XVII
AD 197: "For we solemnize the day after Saturday in contradistinction to those who call this day their Sabbath." Tertullian, Apology, Chapter 16
The truth is, there is not a single historical text that speaks of Christians observing the Sabbath as their primary day of worship.
So, despite sabbatarian claims to the contrary, it is an unavoidable historical fact that Sunday was established as the highest and holiest of days long before the councils and proclamations of the fourth century. It was observed by the very first Christians and by all succeeding generations. In the end, the only way sabbatarians can really refute the historical evidence that Sunday is the God-ordained day of Christian worship is to accuse the early Christians - including the very first Christians - of apostasy.
AD 107: "Let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days." St. Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, Chapter IX
AD 130: "Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me... Wherefore, we keep... the day... on which Jesus rose again from the dead." Epistle of Barnabas, Chapter XV
AD 160: "There is no other thing for which you blame us, my friends [speaking to the Jews], is there than this? That we do not live according to the Law, nor... do we observe the Sabbath as you do."
"For we to would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you - namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts."
"But the Gentiles, who have believed on Him, and have repented on the sins which they have committed, they shall received the inheritanc... although they neither keep the Sabbath, nor are circumised, nor observe the feasts." St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue wit Trypho, Chapters X, XVIII, and XXVI.
AD 190: "He, fulfillment of the precept, according to the Gospel, keeps the Lord's day... glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself." Clement of Alexandria, The Stromata, Book VII, Chapter XVII
AD 197: "For we solemnize the day after Saturday in contradistinction to those who call this day their Sabbath." Tertullian, Apology, Chapter 16
The truth is, there is not a single historical text that speaks of Christians observing the Sabbath as their primary day of worship.
So, despite sabbatarian claims to the contrary, it is an unavoidable historical fact that Sunday was established as the highest and holiest of days long before the councils and proclamations of the fourth century. It was observed by the very first Christians and by all succeeding generations. In the end, the only way sabbatarians can really refute the historical evidence that Sunday is the God-ordained day of Christian worship is to accuse the early Christians - including the very first Christians - of apostasy.
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People will pick any day they want, with any biblical reason which appears significant in their minds and call it a Sabbath Day.bound said:
We can celebrate everyday. We can go to church any day of the week, but we are to rest from hard work from Fri Sundown-Sat sundown to honor God. It may not be a direct command, but it's quite obvious there is a clear partially by our Lord upon which day he chose. The day HE prefers. The day which comes up in scripture as the day of rest. No need to take liberties to change it imo.
But we aren't to judge if others do change the day of rest. I don't believe it's a salvation issue.
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Bound:
"AD 90: "One the Lord's own day gather together and break bread and give thanks." Didache, 14:1"
GE:
Which you, PRESUME, is Sunday.
Justin bragged we all, i.e., the Christians in the latter halve of the second century, like the heathen, come together on "SUNDAY" - openly. Christian had nothing to fear from the pagans, they worshipped on the same day.
The Teaching is from first century Christianity, "the Lord's Day" ("the Lord's" without 'day' 'hehmera', if I remember correctly); two different days!
"AD 90: "One the Lord's own day gather together and break bread and give thanks." Didache, 14:1"
GE:
Which you, PRESUME, is Sunday.
Justin bragged we all, i.e., the Christians in the latter halve of the second century, like the heathen, come together on "SUNDAY" - openly. Christian had nothing to fear from the pagans, they worshipped on the same day.
The Teaching is from first century Christianity, "the Lord's Day" ("the Lord's" without 'day' 'hehmera', if I remember correctly); two different days!
Bound:
"AD 107: "Let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days." St. Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, Chapter IX"
GE:
See my post before. Ignatius associates the Sabbath (of the Old Testament) with the 'Lord's Life' or 'Day'. The 'queen etc. is an interpolation that helped the pseudo-Ignatius not a bit.
"AD 107: "Let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days." St. Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, Chapter IX"
GE:
See my post before. Ignatius associates the Sabbath (of the Old Testament) with the 'Lord's Life' or 'Day'. The 'queen etc. is an interpolation that helped the pseudo-Ignatius not a bit.
Bound:
"AD 130: "Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me... Wherefore, we keep... the day... on which Jesus rose again from the dead." Epistle of Barnabas, Chapter XV"
GE:
Yes! Mt28:1 - unadulterated: "In the Sabbath's fullness of daylight, after noon ...." 'Opse sabbatohn tehi epiphohskousehi eis mian s."
"AD 130: "Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me... Wherefore, we keep... the day... on which Jesus rose again from the dead." Epistle of Barnabas, Chapter XV"
GE:
Yes! Mt28:1 - unadulterated: "In the Sabbath's fullness of daylight, after noon ...." 'Opse sabbatohn tehi epiphohskousehi eis mian s."
Bound:
"AD 160: "There is no other thing for which you blame us, my friends [speaking to the Jews], is there than this? That we do not live according to the Law, nor... do we observe the Sabbath as you do."
"For we to would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you - namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts."
"But the Gentiles, who have believed on Him, and have repented on the sins which they have committed, they shall received the inheritanc... although they neither keep the Sabbath, nor are circumised, nor observe the feasts." St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue wit Trypho, Chapters X, XVIII, and XXVI."
GE:
So, after all this rambling of Justin's, where is he mentioning '"the Lord's Day"?
"AD 160: "There is no other thing for which you blame us, my friends [speaking to the Jews], is there than this? That we do not live according to the Law, nor... do we observe the Sabbath as you do."
"For we to would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you - namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts."
"But the Gentiles, who have believed on Him, and have repented on the sins which they have committed, they shall received the inheritanc... although they neither keep the Sabbath, nor are circumised, nor observe the feasts." St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue wit Trypho, Chapters X, XVIII, and XXVI."
GE:
So, after all this rambling of Justin's, where is he mentioning '"the Lord's Day"?