Is it really "Our time to die" when murdered or killed....

[Matt22:37-39]

The passive aggressive will say one thing, do another, and then deny ever saying the first thing. They don't communicate their needs and wishes in a clear manner, expecting their spouse to read their mind and meet their needs. After all, if their spouse truly loved them he/she would just naturally know what they needed or wanted. The passive aggressive withholds information about how he/she feels, their ego is fragile and can't take the slightest criticism so why let you know what they are thinking or feeling? God forbid they disclose that information and you criticize them.

Confronting the Passive Aggressive:

Beware, if you confront the passive aggressive he/she will most likely sulk, give you the silent treatment or completely walk away leaving you standing there to deal with the problem alone. There are two reasons for confronting the passive aggressive. One, if done correctly you may be able to help him/her gain insight into the negative consequences of their behaviors. Two, even if that doesn't happen, it will at least give you the opportunity to talk to him/her in a frank way about how his/her behavior affects you. If nothing else you can get a few things "off your chest." Below are some ways you might approach your passive aggressive:

Make your feelings the subject of the conversation and not his/her bad behaviors.

Don't attack his/her character.

Make sure you have privacy.

Confront him/her about one behavior at a time, don't bring up everything at once.

If he/she needs to retreat from the conversation allow them to do it with dignity.

Have a time limit, confrontation should not stretch on indefinitely.

If he/she tries to turn the table on you, do not defend your need to have an adult conversation about your feelings.

Be sure he/she understands that you care about what happens to them, that you love them and that you are not trying to control them. You are only trying to get to the bottom of your disagreements and make the relationship better.

Inside the Passive Aggressive:

The passive aggressive has a real desire to connect with you emotionally but their fear of such a connection causes them to be obstructive and engage in self-destructive habits. He/she will be covert in their actions and it will only move him/her further from his/her desired relationship with you.

The passive aggressive never looks internally and examines their role in a relationship problem. They have to externalize it and blame others for having shortcomings. To accept that he/she has flaws would be tantamount to emotional self-destruction. They live in denial of their self-destructive behaviors, the consequences of those behaviors and the choices they make that cause others so much pain.

The passive aggressive objectifies the object of their desire. You are to be used as a means to an end. Your only value is to feed his/her own emotional needs. You are not seen as a person with feelings and needs but as an extension of him/her. They care for you the way they care for a favorite chair. You are there for their comfort and pleasure and are of use as long as you fill their needs.

The passive aggressive wants the attention and attachment that comes with loving someone but fears losing his/her independence and sense of self to his/her spouse. They want love and attention but avoid it out of fear of it destroying them. You have to be kept at arms length and if there is an emotional attachment it is tenuous at best.

The only hope for change in the way they deal with relationship issues is if they are able to acknowledge their shortcomings and contributions to the marital problems. Facing childhood wounds, looking internally instead of externally to find the cause of problems in their life will help them form deeper emotional attachments with a higher sense of emotional safety.


http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/a/Pass_Agg.htm

 

[Matt22:37-39]

BTW, my ex left 2 wives unbiblically neither one of us cheated (although he lied and said his ex did when she didn't to get me when I met him) and he moved in and lived with the 3rd also a Christian and is now married to her..so according to God's word he SINNED MORE THAN ONCE and that is ok with you all? ..why, because you are men and men rule?

REAL MEN DON'T QUIT THEY MAN UP...but I guess you would have to be a man first.

 

[Aaron]

Yes, happened when God allowed His only begotton Son to die.

:thumbs:There's your answer!

 

[Iconoclast]

BTW, my ex left 2 wives unbiblically neither one of us cheated (although he lied and said his ex did when she didn't to get me when I met him) and he moved in and lived with the 3rd also a Christian and is now married to her..so according to God's word he SINNED MORE THAN ONCE and that is ok with you all? ..why, because you are men and men rule?

REAL MEN DON'T QUIT THEY MAN UP...but I guess you would have to be a man first.

You need pastoral advise. All this story that you are telling is full of sin, lies, adultery....all this talk of personality types,and horoscopes is unbiblical nonsense that will not bring any clarity.

7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

No my friend he does.

I didn't sin he did...and who said anything about adultery...are you real or r u here to just mess with people?

One more of your uncalled for attacks I will put you on ignore

 

[HankD]

I skipped right to the end after a few posts and things got a bit annsi...

So someone may have already offered the following scripture as a general principle:

Luke 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!​

Yes God is sovereign but He still holds those who are/were willing to bring forth His determinate will as responsible for their sin.​

As Jesus said "It is impossible but that offences will come" to speculate beyond that simple statement is not good.​

It was necessary for Christ to die for our sins but woe to them who were participants:​

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:​

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,​

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Proverbs 3

5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:​

HankD

 

[Oldtimer]

No my friend he does.

I didn't sin he did...and who said anything about adultery...are you real or r u here to just mess with people?

One more of your uncalled for attacks I will put you on ignore

Do you have more than one living ex-husband? Are you dating and seeking to marry another man?

Oh..... "I didn't sin he did..." -- what do the scriptures say about forgiving others? Have you forgiven him?

 

[saturneptune]

BTW, my ex left 2 wives unbiblically neither one of us cheated (although he lied and said his ex did when she didn't to get me when I met him) and he moved in and lived with the 3rd also a Christian and is now married to her..so according to God's word he SINNED MORE THAN ONCE and that is ok with you all? ..why, because you are men and men rule?

REAL MEN DON'T QUIT THEY MAN UP...but I guess you would have to be a man first.

First of all, I have not been one of the ones that has been mean to you. My advice is coming from being married 37 years to one person as a Christian. As I said in the last post, day to day marriage is not a Disney movie, and takes work daily, and I mean daily.

My second point is that you should listen to the advice that Icon gave you about pastoral counseling.

It seems that there is an awful lot of talk about pointing fingers and assigning blame as to this or that sin. You know, from experience how all men are wired. We are strongly attracted to women. Unchecked by the Holy Spirit our nature is what Christ says in Matthew 5. We lust in our minds at the sight of this or that woman. We sin when we rerun it in our minds, and therefore, we have committed the same sin as if we had physically committed the sin of cheating. Only the new heart Christ gives us puts a check on this. This is where you have to start from when considering who to marry. Also, you said you had warning signs about your last marriage about your husband wanting a mother more than a wife.

If one of the partners are in a mindset of keeping a scoreboard of whose fault it is, you will never, ever solve the problem and become the couple Christ wants you to be. It is a time to forgive, not point fingers. It accomplishes nothing. I believe I already said this, but the husband and wife should be like the Church relates to Jesus Christ. This is especially true in the spiritual realm of the marriage.

At times your posts sound angry. I cannot see your eyes, so it is hard to tell. You seem very intellgent and understand the problems, but as Icon said, go see a pastor, and drop the blame game mindset.

 

[salzer mtn]

Don't forget she's writing a book, all of this is just fodder for the pages.

 

[jonathan.borland]

Probably this will delve into free will / monergism. Anyway, does God ordain/force people to commit suicide or murder others based on his divine decree before the creation of the world? If so, maybe it shouldn't be called SUIcide?

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Do you have more than one living ex-husband? Are you dating and seeking to marry another man?

Oh..... "I didn't sin he did..." -- what do the scriptures say about forgiving others? Have you forgiven him?

I know your trying your darnedest to find fault with me but you will not be able to.

I was only married once unlike sinful ex's 3 marriages. He left us unbiblically not me him and there was NO infidelity...so keep trying maybe you'll eventually find something...NOT!

Guess you don't read what I write or you wouldn't be asking these questions. I take it your one of the evil ones on the forum...well now I know.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

First of all, I have not been one of the ones that has been mean to you. My advice is coming from being married 37 years to one person as a Christian. As I said in the last post, day to day marriage is not a Disney movie, and takes work daily, and I mean daily.

My second point is that you should listen to the advice that Icon gave you about pastoral counseling.

It seems that there is an awful lot of talk about pointing fingers and assigning blame as to this or that sin. You know, from experience how all men are wired. We are strongly attracted to women. Unchecked by the Holy Spirit our nature is what Christ says in Matthew 5. We lust in our minds at the sight of this or that woman. We sin when we rerun it in our minds, and therefore, we have committed the same sin as if we had physically committed the sin of cheating. Only the new heart Christ gives us puts a check on this. This is where you have to start from when considering who to marry. Also, you said you had warning signs about your last marriage about your husband wanting a mother more than a wife.

If one of the partners are in a mindset of keeping a scoreboard of whose fault it is, you will never, ever solve the problem and become the couple Christ wants you to be. It is a time to forgive, not point fingers. It accomplishes nothing. I believe I already said this, but the husband and wife should be like the Church relates to Jesus Christ. This is especially true in the spiritual realm of the marriage.

At times your posts sound angry. I cannot see your eyes, so it is hard to tell. You seem very intellgent and understand the problems, but as Icon said, go see a pastor, and drop the blame game mindset.

edited.....

 

[Iconoclast]

FU............................you have no idea what you are talking about male chauvinist pig!

This language does not seem to be of God.although some might think it is ok.

It was you that recently posted you were a christian for years although recently there was a 4 year period in which you were actively fornicating.

i never saw a 4 yr fornication clause in scripture...I do see this:
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

You are a BULLY, bet you were one of those kids growing up who picked on everyone due to your own insecurities. Who knows maybe you were abused by your parents, molested, maybe you grew up in a legalistic church and don't know any better. Whatever your problem is, do you really want to die with that attitude?


The 12 Most Important Ways to Let People Know They Matter
Posted on November 15, 2011 by Angela Maiers • 500 Comments

The measure of a life is not what that life accomplishes but rather the impact that life has on others.

Jackie Robinson

When I think of people who made the biggest impact in my life, it was not their expertise or accomplishments that provided me with the direction, guidance and reassurance I needed to accomplish my goals. It was their sincere belief in me. They let me know through their words and actions that I mattered.

The people in your life want that same validation. In fact, every single person you will ever meet shares this common desire. They want to know they matter.

Mattering a universal human need, and it’s one you have the opportunity to satisfy. But that depends on if the people in your life can answer, “yes” to the following questions:

Do you see me?
Do you hear me?
Do you care about me?
Do I matter to you?

Here are The 12 Important things to do now to ensure a “yes” every time you encounter or interact with someone significant or yet-to-be significant in your life.

1. Begin and End your sentences with “YOU”

I believe in you
I hear you
I understand you
You were awesome
You rocked it
You amaze me

Imagine where these conversations will take you?

2. Acknowledge Everyone

When you acknowledge someone, you recognize their value and importance. How about starting the day with a “Good Morning” email or Tweet? Or smiling at each and every co-workers as you pass by them by on way to the office? Or reaching out to a new acquaintance you see in a crowd or bump into in the Blogosphere? Go out of your way to acknowledge people. Make an effort to “see them”. Like the Na’vi in the movie Avatar, who greeted one another with the phrase “I see you” as a belief and acknowledgment there is something marvelous in everyone you meet.

3. Listen With Interest

There is a difference between simply listening to people and listening with interest. This kind of listening requires your ears and heart. Listening with deep interest signifies that you really care about what someone is saying in contrast to simply listening because it is the nice thing to do. If you question whether people can tell the difference, DON’T. They can, and it matters.

4. Ask Mattering not Matter-of-Fact Questions

Question are a window into our minds and intentions. We show people how much they matter by the questions we ask. How important do these questions make you feel?

What rocked your world today?
Who’s world did YOU rock today?
How can I make your day?
What can I do to make it better?

5. Be Present

The ultimate present you can give another is your PRESENCE. How many times have you been in a conversation with someone, and you know their mind is in another place? How many times have you felt “un-noticed” when someone was looking right at you? You do not have to be available for everyone in every moment … but when you have someones time and attention; honor it with your presence. Really make that person the center of your attention and experience, even if only for a few minutes.

It does wonders in the mattering department!

6. Encourage and Reassure Confidence

If you’ve had the pleasure of teaching a classroom full of young children, you know how much encouragement matters. Children ask out loud, “Is this ok? Did I do it right? Do you like what I did? The need the reassurance that we are headed in the right direction, does not stop when you leave grade school. When you encourage others, you not only communicate that you care and they matter; you add fuel to their motivational fire. And perhaps more than anything else, you give them hope and inspiration. If you need a model of how this works, check out this guy.

7. Deliver Happiness (HT to Zappos)

Cynicism sucks. It sucks the life out of work, business, and people.

Life and work is hard enough and it is easy to get into situations that tear us down. People want and need to be inspired. When people are inspired, they are lifted above these kinds of circumstances and allowed to see the upside of what they can achieve or become. If you can be the one who inspires them, by encouragement or modeling, you’ve helped them and you matter!

8. Talk About Others

No one likes the person in the family, at work, or at the party who only talks about themselves, their interests, their accomplishments and their importance, right?

You become far more interesting and important when you talk about the exciting things other people are doing, trying, creating, writing, and sharing. Doing so gives you the opportunity to make a lot of new friends and establish yourself as someone who is always learning and growing from others. Now, that’s an accomplishment worth talking about.

9. Offer Hope

At every moment of the day, we are either making the world a better place or making it worse. Our thoughts spread out and become contagious, either positively infecting others or unleashing a plague of negativity, doubt and fear. We have the power to help lift someone up or to bring them down. How we interact with those we meet may be the catalyst that sets someone into an emotional tailspin or the spark that provides them with encouragement and HOPE for a better day… or maybe even a better life.

10. Sweat the Small Stuff

Today I heard from a friend. It was a simple text message asking how I was doing followed by a . It mattered.

It doesn’t take much to make someone’s day. It could be a smile, wink, or tweet. It could be an email of praise or a pat on the back for encouragement. Or, a call to say, “hi – how ya doin’, you were on my mind. Almost always, it’s something small that makes a big difference. So, do sweat the small stuff.

11. Tell the people in your life how you feel about them

If it doesn’t come natural to you, all the more reason to do it more often. It will begin to feel natural soon. Of course, “You matter” is what everyone wants to hear, but other phrases work just as well: “I’m happy to see you. You mean so much to me. You’re contribution to the team is immeasurable. I so appreciate you.” The language of mattering is universal; no translation necessary. Tell people and tell them often how much they matter!

12. Make The Choice

Mattering is a choice. Give yourself that option everyday. It doesn’t matter how you do it- it only matters that you do it. You can say it, write it, tweet it, or deliver the message in person. Make the choice everyday to tell, offer, thank, encourage, inspire, and let others know you notice and believe in them. It could be and often will be the most powerful thing you do all day. Is mattering on your TO DO list?

I’ll leave you with this final thought and challenge.

Can you imagine what kind of world we can create by each of us knowing we matter, believing in ourselves and supporting one another?
Can you imagine how actions you take today, could make a difference in some one’s life tomorrow? And that ripple would last for generations?

I can, and I know this simple, clear message of “YOU MATTER” has the power to change lives and change the world.
Just ask these amazing world changers:

Join me in letting the world know in big and small ways that they matter. And in case you’ve not yet been told today that what you do makes a difference, than let me be the first to say…

YOU MATTER!

 

[Iconoclast]

People might talk with you or try and help, if you were not lecturing or accusing them all the time.there are many good people here who would help, but you are insulting all of them.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Bye. Bye bully...that isn't the fed back I get from other places, so it is obviously the fact that a WOMAN is CONVICTING you legalist!

That is all it is plain and simple...a good read for your...SUBTLE POWER OF SPIRITUAL ABUSE

 

[Iconoclast]

Bye. Bye bully...that isn't the fed back I get from other places, so it is obviously the fact that a WOMAN is CONVICTING you legalist!

That is all it is plain and simple...a good read for your...SUBTLE POWER OF SPIRITUAL ABUSE

Open rebuke is better than secret love.:wavey: Your ungodliness is spilling over now...with your potty mouth:thumbs:

 

[Matt22:37-39]

The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse

By David Johnson and Jeff Vanvonderen

Marks of a Spiritually Unhealthy Environment
For example, the authors identify the marks of a spiritually unhealthy system. I'd like to include these here as a sample of how the authors address these issues. (The following consists of verbatim citations of copyrighted material from Chapter 5,6 of "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse.")

1. Power-Posturing

Power-posturing simply means leaders spend a lot of time focused on their own authority and reminding others of it, as well.
They spend a lot of energy posturing about how much authority they have and how much everyone else is supposed to submit to it. The fact that they are eager to place people under them-- under their word, under their "authority"-- is one easy-to-spot clue that they are operating in their own authority.

2. Performance Preoccupation

In abusive spiritual systems, power is postured and authority is legislated. Therefore, these systems are preoccupied with the performance of their members. Obedience and submission are two important words often used.
The way to tell if someone is doing the right thing for the wrong reason is if they are keeping track of it. Let's say that another way. If obedience and service is flowing out of you as a result of your own dependence on God alone, you won't keep track of it with an eye toward reward, you'll just do it. But if you're preoccupied with whether you've done enough to please God, then you're not looking at Him, you're looking at your own works. And you're also concerned about who else might be looking at you, evaluating you. What would anyone keep track of their godly behavior unless they were trying to earn spiritual points because of it?

For many reasons, followers sometimes obey or follow orders to avoid being shamed, to gain someone's approval, or to keep their spiritual status or position intact. This is not true obedience or submission, it is compliant self-seeking. When behavior is simply legislated from the outside, instead of coming from a heart that loves God, it cannot be called obedience. It is merely weak compliance to some form of external pressure.

3. Unspoken Rules

In abusive spiritual systems, people's lives are controlled from the outside in by rules, spoken and unspoken. Unspoken rules are those that govern unhealthy churches or families but are not said out loud. Because they are not said out loud, you don't find out that they're there until you break them.
The most powerful of all unspoken rules in the abusive system is what we have already termed the "can't talk" rule. The "can't talk" [rule] has this thinking behind it: "The real problem cannot be exposed because then it would have to be dealt with and things would have to change; so it must be protected behind walls of silence (neglect) or by assault (legalistic attack). If you speak about the problem, you are the problem.

4. Lack of Balance

The fourth characteristic of a spiritual abusive system is an unbalanced approach to living out the truth of the Christian life. This shows itself in two extremes:

Extreme Objectivism

The first extreme is an empirical approach to life, which elevates objective truth to the exclusion of valid subjective experience.
This approach to spirituality creates a system in which authority is based upon the level of education and intellectual capacity alone, rather than on intimacy with God, obedience and sensitivity to His Spirit.

Extreme Subjectivism

The other manifestation of lack of balance is seen in an extremely subjective approach to the Christian life. What is true is decided on the basis of feelings and experiences, giving more weight to them than what the Bible declares. In this system, people can't know or understand truths (even if they really do understand or know them) until the leaders "receive them by spiritual revelation from the Lord" and "impart" them to the people.
In such systems, it is more important to act according to the word of a leader who has "a word" for you than to act according to what you know to be true from Scripture, or simply from your spiritual growth-history.
As with the extreme objective approach, Christians who are highly subjective also have a view of education-- most often, that education is bad or unnecessary. There is almost a pride in not being educated, and a disdain for those who are. Everything that is needed is taught through the Holy Spirit. ("After all, Peter and Timothy didn't go to college or seminary...")

 

[Matt22:37-39]

5. Paranoia

In the church that is spiritually abusive, there is a sense, spoken or unspoken, that "others will not understand what we're all about, so let's not let them know-- that way they won't be able to ridicule or persecute us." There is an assumption that (1) what we say, know, or do is a result of our being more enlightened that others; (2) others will not understand unless they become one of us; and (3) others will respond negatively.

In a place where authority is grasped and legislated, not simply demonstrated, persecution sensitivity builds a case for keeping everything within the system. Why? Because of the evil, dangerous, or unspiritual people outside of the system who are trying to weaken or destroy "us." This mentality builds a strong wall or bunker around the abusive system, isolates the abusers from scrutiny and accountability, and makes it more difficult for people to leave-- because they will then be outsiders too. While it is true that there is a world of evil outside of the system, there is also good out there. But people are misled into thinking that the only safety is in the system.

Ironically, Jesus and Paul both warned that one of the worst dangers to the flock was from wolves in the house (Matthew 10:16, Acts 20:29-30).

6. Misplaced Loyalty

The next characteristic of spiritually abusive systems is that a misplaced sense of loyalty is fostered and even demanded. We're not talking about loyalty to Christ, but about loyalty to a given organization, church, or leader.
Once again, because authority is assumed or legislated (and therefore not real), following must be legislated as well. A common way this is accomplished is by setting up a system where disloyalty to or disagreement with the leadership is construed as the same thing as disobeying God. Questioning leaders is equal to questioning God.

"We Alone Are Right"

There are three factors that come into place here, adding up to a misplaced loyalty. First, leadership projects a "we alone are right" mentality, which permeates the system. Members must remain in the system if they want to be "safe," or to stay "on good terms" with God, or not be viewed as wrong or "backslidden."

Scare Tactics

The second factor that brings about misplaced loyalty is the use of "scare tactics." We're already seen this in some of the paranoia described in the last section. Scare tactics are more serious. This is more than just the risk of being polluted by the world.

We have counseled many Christians who, after deciding to leave their church, were told horrifying things. "God is going to withdraw His Spirit from you and your family." "God will destroy your business." "Without our protection, Satan will get your children." "You and your family will come under a curse." This is spiritual blackmail and it's abuse. And it does cause people to stay in abusive places.

Humiliation

The third method of calling forth misplaced loyalty is the threat of humiliation. This is done by publicly shaming, exposing, or threatening to remove people from the group.
Unquestionably, there is a place for appropriate church discipline. In the abusive system, it is the fear of being exposed, humiliated or removed that insures your proper allegiance, and insulates those in authority. You can be "exposed" for asking too many questions, for disobeying the unspoken rules, or for disagreeing with authority. People are made public examples in order to send a message to those who remain. Others have phone campaigns launched against them, to warn their friends and others in the group about how "dangerous" they are.

7. Secretive

When you see people in a religious system being secretive-- watch out. People don't hide what is appropriate; they hide what is inappropriate.
One reason spiritual abusive families and churches are secretive is because they are so image conscious. People in these systems can't even live up to their own performance standards, so they have to hide what is real. Some believe they must do this to protect God's good name. So how things look and what others think becomes more important than what's real. They become God's "public relations agents." The truth is, He's not hiring anyone for this position.

Another reason for secrecy in a church is that the leadership has a condescending, negative view of the laity. This results in conspiracies on the leadership level. They tell themselves, "People are not mature enough to handle truth." This is patronizing at best. Conspiracies also develop among the lay people. Since it is not all right [sic] to notice or talk about problems, people form conspiracies behind closed doors and over the telephone as they try to solve things informally. But since they have no authority, they solve, and solve, and solve-- but nothing really gets solved. And all the while, building God's true kingdom is put on hold.

Conclusion

I hope that what I have cited gets your attention and motivates you to read this book. The subtle patterns of unhealthy characteristics are discussed in a way that actually helps people identify them, resist them, and recover from them.

 

[Iconoclast]

All this psycho babble is not helping you...get some spiritual help from a godly Pastor.