Is it the sinner's fault that he will go to hell?

[Luke2427]

I'm not talking about equipping believers, I'm talking about acceptance of the Gospel. First you said men are needed to proclaim the Gospel and disagreed that God can use any means He wants. Now you are saying angels are needed, essentially agreeing with me that God will use whatever means He desires. Where is the disagreement?

No I did not say that men are needed to proclaim the Gospel- primarily because I have not believed that in a very long time.

I said we, the CHURCH, need teachers and helpers to grow in knowledge effectively and to help interpret the Scriptures properly.

Winman thinks he needs NNE because GOD speaks to him.

That's not only a very ignorant position but it is also one of extreme arrogance.

 

[Winman]

IF there is no imputed/original sin, than we are all born innocent before god, until we choose to willfully reject Jesus , so why even preach/teach/witness to Him, doesn't that cause innocent people to become sinners by rejecting hHim?

And even this is error, because you do not know the scriptures. A man will become guilty when he realizes he has sinned against the law written on his heart and conscience.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

Paul taught that as many as have sinned without the law shall perish without the law. Why? Because they have the law written on their hearts and conscience. You do not have to have the written law of Moses to understand that lying, killing, and stealing is wrong. In fact, it is clear that men before Moses knew and understood what sin is. Pharaoh knew it was wrong to have Abraham's wife, Joseph's brothers confessed they had sinned.

So man are going to be condemned by their own heart and conscience even if they do not hear the word of God. But if they do hear preaching they can trust Jesus and be saved.

But very little children and babies cannot understand right from wrong, the scriptures also make this clear. They cannot be guilty of sin.

Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

God did not hold the children of Israel accountable when their parents sinned, because they did not have knowledge between good and evil. They were allowed to enter the Promised Land, a figure of heaven.

It is plain as day.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

IF there is no imputed/original sin, than we are all born innocent before god, until we choose to willfully reject Jesus , so why even preach/teach/witness to Him, doesn't that cause innocent people to become sinners by rejecting hHim?

Here is all I am going to say on this subject matter Brother Yeshua & these are my beliefs. I know you been attempting to communicate this but you are getting stepped on...but these are beliefs of most Reformed types & Old School Baptists.

That Adam willfully transgressed the law of God and therefore plunged himself and his posterity into a state of guilt and corruption (Rom. 5 : 12-19) .That now man in his natural state is dead in trespasses and sins (Eph. 2: 1) and is unable to recover himself by an act of his own "free-will" (John 1: 13; John 6: 44; Rom. 3: 10-20; Rom.9: 16).

And now Im done here....I'd suggest you move on also.

 

[DHK]

And even this is error, because you do not know the scriptures. A man will become guilty when he realizes he has sinned against the law written on his heart and conscience.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

Paul taught that as many as have sinned without the law shall perish without the law. Why? Because they have the law written on their hearts and conscience. You do not have to have the written law of Moses to understand that lying, killing, and stealing is wrong. In fact, it is clear that men before Moses knew and understood what sin is. Pharaoh knew it was wrong to have Abraham's wife, Joseph's brothers confessed they had sinned.

So man are going to be condemned by their own heart and conscience even if they do not hear the word of God. But if they do hear preaching they can trust Jesus and be saved.

But very little children and babies cannot understand right from wrong, the scriptures also make this clear. They cannot be guilty of sin.

They are guilty by their sin nature.
However, Paul was not speaking of infants here. You have inserted that into the context just as the RCC inserts infants into the house of the jailer in Acts 16:31ff. That is how they justify baptismal regeneration. There must have been infants in the household who were saved. You are doing the exact same thing here--reading into the passage something that is not there.

Deu 1:39

Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

They would wander in the wilderness for 40 years. Joshua and Caleb's generation would die (all of them except for Joshua and Caleb). Their children would enter into the promised land. Therefore the age of the children entering into the promised land would be 40! Those are the "little ones" being referred to here--the little ones of 40 years old and their descendants.

God did not hold the children of Israel accountable when their parents sinned, because they did not have knowledge between good and evil. They were allowed to enter the Promised Land, a figure of heaven.

It is plain as day.

It is as plain as day that a forty year old person is referred to as a "little one." Give me a break!!

 

[Yeshua1]

And even this is error, because you do not know the scriptures. A man will become guilty when he realizes he has sinned against the law written on his heart and conscience.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

Paul taught that as many as have sinned without the law shall perish without the law. Why? Because they have the law written on their hearts and conscience. You do not have to have the written law of Moses to understand that lying, killing, and stealing is wrong. In fact, it is clear that men before Moses knew and understood what sin is. Pharaoh knew it was wrong to have Abraham's wife, Joseph's brothers confessed they had sinned.

So man are going to be condemned by their own heart and conscience even if they do not hear the word of God. But if they do hear preaching they can trust Jesus and be saved.

But very little children and babies cannot understand right from wrong, the scriptures also make this clear. They cannot be guilty of sin.

Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

God did not hold the children of Israel accountable when their parents sinned, because they did not have knowledge between good and evil. They were allowed to enter the Promised Land, a figure of heaven.

It is plain as day.

Please answer this!

Do you hold that we are born without a sin nature, and when we actually chose to sin is when we get one from God?

So could one of us keep the law enough to be saved, for why would we HAVE to sin if no nature in us ?

And why did jesus come via Virgin birth , since he could have been born as any of us, IF we have no imputed sin nature?

 

[Luke2427]

I just showed you scripture where John mistakenly worshiped either an angel or fellow believer in heaven. Is that error?

I showed you scripture that says the leaves of the tree of life are for the healing of the nations. Why would we need healing if everything was absolutely perfect in heaven?

You are so smart, tell me.

Christians aren't supposed to mumble or complain, but we see believers complaining in heaven.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

We are told to be patient, we are told not to mumble or complain, but these believers complained in heaven, they were impatient.

Tell me [snipped] does this sound like absolute perfection?

So there will most assuredly be all KINDS of sinning going on forever in the presence of God, right?

I just want you to have the courage of your convictions. I want you to go on record as saying that sin will be taking place forever and never be done away with by God.