Is it the sinner's fault that he will go to hell?

[pinoybaptist]

John 3:18.

Don't buy the "but what about those who never heard" argument. God has equipped every person with what I coined the Four Cs...creation, conscience, circumstances and ceaselessness (the desire for immortality). Man is responsible ( response - able).

so your answer to the question I asked which you put in quotes is that yes, it is God's fault a sinner is a sinner ?

 

[webdog]

so your answer to the question I asked which you put in quotes is that yes, it is God's fault a sinner is a sinner ?

I didn't answer your question...and my post is quite simple to understand. I'm not sure what part of man is responsible you don't understand.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Every one of them had opportunity.

Maybe not the fullness of the gosple, but like every other human being, the scriptures make certain that every person recieves God sent Light/Revelation that can be recieved or rejected..just like those who hear the fullness of the Gosple. I have no dought that many of those who never heard the gosple made the right decision when Light was presented.

PRAISE GOD for his great provision

Why in the world would you choose to reject Gods (SAVING) Grace? And if He knows ahead of time that they are going to reject the Saving Grace that He offers (ie Not believe) why waste your time on them? It appears that you are putting God in the position where He either does not know that the sinner will reject Salvation or He knows but He in inept--He cant save the sinner He wants to save (His own creation). Basically (from my prospective anyway) your limiting the efficacy & power of God & that is why we disagree with you so vigorously.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In election God actively intervenes to rescue those who deserve destruction, whereas in reprobation God passively allows some to receive the just punishment they deserve for their sins.

 

[Iconoclast]

Why in the world would you choose to reject Gods (SAVING) Grace? And if He knows ahead of time that they are going to reject the Saving Grace that He offers (ie Not believe) why waste your time on them? It appears that you are putting God in the position where He either does not know that the sinner will reject Salvation or He knows but He in inept--He cant save the sinner He wants to save (His own creation). Basically (from my prospective anyway) your limiting the efficacy & power of God & that is why we disagree with you so vigorously.

EWF,
Well stated and you correctly identify what happens when someone takes a verse out of context and tries in vain to have it become their whole theology.
They in truth have no real biblical theology.Just unfounded statements:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Yeshua1]

In election God actively intervenes to rescue those who deserve destruction, whereas in reprobation God passively allows some to receive the just punishment they deserve for their sins.

yes, for until the Lord Himself intervenes to save anyone, NONE of us will be saved!

many err because they cling to the false teachings of real free will in man, that we are NOT born with sin natures, but get them after we chose to do evil, and that its rejecting jesus that condemns us... The truth is we are ALL nborn sinners, sin by choice, and ALl already condemned before even hearing of jesus!

 

[Tom Butler]

John 3:18.

Don't buy the "but what about those who never heard" argument. God has equipped every person with what I coined the Four Cs...creation, conscience, circumstances and ceaselessness (the desire for immortality). Man is responsible ( response - able).

Romans 1 and 2 give us some help with the question of those who have never heard the gospel.

First, we have the creation all around us, which provides enough light/evidence to point us toward a creator. Paul says, then, that we are "without excuse." ((1:20) One of my pastors years ago observed that if we reject the light that is given to us, God is under no obligation to give us more light.

Second, Paul, in Romans 2, suggests that a sinner who has never heard the gospel will not be condemned for rejecting what he has never heard. He says those who have never been exposed to the law of God are a "law unto themselves." (2:14-15) He goes on to say that the law is "written on our hearts."

So, we all have some sense of right and wrong, and we all have a conscience to guide us. But, because we are sinners, we don't even keep our own moral code.

So, condemnation in this instance is based on the violation of one's moral code. And that person, when facing the Judge, will have to admit that the condemnation is just.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I didn't answer your question...and my post is quite simple to understand.

in future, just use PinoyBaptist: instead of quotes, then.
thank you.

I'm not sure what part of man is responsible you don't understand.

Explain to me how a just God can demand responsibility from an unbeliever, not to mention a reprobate, or as yet unregenerate sinner.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Brother Earth Wind and Fire...

You posted......

Why in the world would you choose to reject Gods (SAVING) Grace?

I'm not.

Its Gods great saving grace that I am advocating.

 

[Luke2427]

Explain to me how a just God can demand responsibility from an unbeliever, not to mention a reprobate, or as yet unregenerate sinner.

Because God can do whatever he wants to do.

In fact God does demand people give an account to do things that they have never been able to do- he does this ALL OF THE TIME.

Every person who ever goes to hell will go to hell because he is a sinner.

But God commands every person who has ever lived to NOT sin.

Sinners cannot HELP BUT sin.

They cannot be perfect- not for an hour.

They are not able.

But God commands them to be perfect- not for an hour- but for every moment of their lives.

They are NOT ABLE to do what God commands them to do.

If you don't like God because of this- just say so.

But don't create a whole new god to suit your fancy and pretend he is the God who has revealed himself in Scripture.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Because God can do whatever he wants to do.

In fact God does demand people give an account to do things that they have never been able to do- he does this ALL OF THE TIME.

Every person who ever goes to hell will go to hell because he is a sinner.

But God commands every person who has ever lived to NOT sin.

Sinners cannot HELP BUT sin.

They cannot be perfect- not for an hour.

They are not able.

But God commands them to be perfect- not for an hour- but for every moment of their lives.

They are NOT ABLE to do what God commands them to do.

If you don't like God because of this- just say so.

But don't create a whole new god to suit your fancy and pretend he is the God who has revealed himself in Scripture.

what's the difference between your god and the god of religion ?
nothing.
what's the difference between your theology and the trash theology all around?
nothing much.
you talk like you know the Bible and the God in it, but you really don't.
Here is the God of the Bible:
1. He is a God who created the entire universe and everything in it;
2. He is a God whom mankind, in Adam, rejected;
3. He is a God who knew beforehand of this rejection;
4. He is a God who purposed to redeem a definite number of people from a fallen race He knew would result from Adam's transgression;
5. He is a God who knew the names of these people He has purposed from eternity past to redeem unto Himself;
6. This God wrote the names of His elect in the Lamb's Book of Life, from the foundation of the world;
7. He did not write those names depending on the reaction of the sinner to Him. He purposed to redeem the sinner, ALL BY HIMSELF;
8. In that purpose, He demanded NOTHING from the sinner. not obedience, not faith, not anything that you and your kind would require that He demand.
9. He then sent His Son to redeem that elect, none lost, but the son of perdition, and only them, with His own blood.
10. He created a people, known as national Israel, from whom the Redeemer would come, and with whom He dealt directly, DEALINGS WHICH HE THEN CAUSED TO BE WRITTEN DOWN AND PRESERVED SO THAT FUTURE GENERATIONS WILL LEARN FROM THEM.
11. To them He gave His laws, NOT TO THE HITTITES, NOT TO THE JEBUSITES, NOT TO ANY OF THE TRIBES OUTSIDE AND AROUND ISRAEL;
12. They, and only they, were responsible to Him, not any of the tribes around Israel.
13. He DEMANDS NO RESPONSIBILITY from the non-elect because as far as He is concerned, their judgment has already been handed down, from the time He wrote the names of those whom He claims His own and whom He purposed to redeem.
14. Lastly, you are an [filth removed - sad to see such language on the BB].

 

[webdog]

in future, just use PinoyBaptist: instead of quotes, then.
thank you.

It was the thought or idea I was quoting, not you. You didn't even use those exact words to quote.

Explain to me how a just God can demand responsibility from an unbeliever, not to mention a reprobate, or as yet unregenerate sinner.

simple. He created us "able" to "respond."

 

[Luke2427]

what's the difference between your god and the god of religion ?nothing.

Why? Because you say so??

what's the difference between your theology and the trash theology all around?
nothing much.

How nasty! And again: do you have any reasons or just emotional unwarranted claims?

you talk like you know the Bible and the God in it, but you really don't.
Here is the God of the Bible:
1. He is a God who created the entire universe and everything in it;

Yes- my three year old understands that.

2. He is a God whom mankind, in Adam, rejected;

Again- my three year old has conquered that tid bit of knowledge.

4. He is a God who purposed to redeem a definite number of people from a fallen race He knew would result from Adam's transgression;

Now you have enunciated a point which my eight year old understands. Your climbing.

Is this a conversation between mature Christians or what?

5. He is a God who knew the names of these people He has purposed from eternity past to redeem unto Himself;

And??

6. This God wrote the names of His elect in the Lamb's Book of Life, from the foundation of the world;

And??

7. He did not write those names depending on the reaction of the sinner to Him. He purposed to redeem the sinner, ALL BY HIMSELF;

And??

8. In that purpose, He demanded NOTHING from the sinner. not obedience, not faith, not anything that you and your kind would require that He demand.

Not me and my kind. You've got me mixed up with winman and webdog.

9. He then sent His Son to redeem that elect, none lost, but the son of perdition, and only them, with His own blood.

Yep.

10. He created a people, known as national Israel, from whom the Redeemer would come, and with whom He dealt directly, DEALINGS WHICH HE THEN CAUSED TO BE WRITTEN DOWN AND PRESERVED SO THAT FUTURE GENERATIONS WILL LEARN FROM THEM.

How is all of this relevant???

11. To them He gave His laws, NOT TO THE HITTITES, NOT TO THE JEBUSITES, NOT TO ANY OF THE TRIBES OUTSIDE AND AROUND ISRAEL;
12. They, and only they, were responsible to Him, not any of the tribes around Israel.

Oh boy- why don't we talk about grass being green and the sky being blue.

What is your POINT???

13. He DEMANDS NO RESPONSIBILITY from the non-elect because as far as He is concerned, their judgment has already been handed down, from the time He wrote the names of those whom He claims His own and whom He purposed to redeem.

What then, sir, does he judge them for?

He holds them responsible for their sins.

14. Lastly, you are an [filth removed - sad to see such language on the BB].

[/QUOTE]

Hate I missed that.

It would have been amusing, I'm sure.

 

[pinoybaptist]

simple. He created us "able" to "respond."

okay, I'll leave you to your theology.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Luke 2427

You posted...

Because God can do whatever he wants to do.

In fact God does demand people give an account to do things that they have never been able to do- he does this ALL OF THE TIME.

Every person who ever goes to hell will go to hell because he is a sinner.

But God commands every person who has ever lived to NOT sin.

Sinners cannot HELP BUT sin.

They cannot be perfect- not for an hour.

But God.

In his great love our great God wants to save sinners!

And who are those?

The "whosoever wills.

What a great God we have! :godisgood::godisgood::godisgood:

 

[pinoybaptist]

Hey, Luke 2427, you arrogant 'p', you and I actually have a similar theology, you know.
But because you're such a thick, arrogant P, you couldn't wait to find out what my points were.
You just had to jump in there and show everybody how much better your understanding of God is and anyone who contradicts your understanding is somebody who's trying to bring in a false god.
[edited]

 

[webdog]

PB, whats actually quite arrogant is to continually thumb your nose at BB rules even after your vulgarity was edited and continue to spew the same filth. You might not want to worry about theology so much as your heart mimics a septic tank.

 

[Iconoclast]

14. Lastly, you are an [filth removed - sad to see such language on the BB].


Hate I missed that.

It would have been amusing, I'm sure.

I am sure he meant to say...a saint of the most High God.lol

 

[Iconoclast]

Hey, Luke 2427, you arrogant 'p', you and I actually have a similar theology, you know.
But because you're such a thick, arrogant P, you couldn't wait to find out what my points were.
You just had to jump in there and show everybody how much better your understanding of God is and anyone who contradicts your understanding is somebody who's trying to bring in a false god.
[edited]

Looks as if you are having a meltdown.....

5 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Looks as if you are having a meltdown.....

5 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

3 But fornicatn, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

In the place were I worked for 20 years that would have been considered a complement...implies an air of confidence & a dash of smugness