Is it the sinner's fault that he will go to hell?

[Iconoclast]

....didn't mean to start another "rift!" I just felt bad about the running battle Icon, and I had on another posted topic earlier this month, and had to say, after reading this exchange of words, I no longer feel bad about our exchange, because at least it didn't resort to the colorful [inappropriate] words, I've seen being tossed around on this post.

Forgive me for opening up more pain. I wasn't meaning to poke fun, just let Icon know that at least he and I don't resort to this kind of verbal warfare.

Exactly right dude!:thumbsup:Thats why I laughed:thumbsup:

 

[saturneptune]

....didn't mean to start another "rift!" I just felt bad about the running battle Icon, and I had on another posted topic earlier this month, and had to say, after reading this exchange of words, I no longer feel bad about our exchange, because at least it didn't resort to the colorful [inappropriate] words, I've seen being tossed around on this post.

Forgive me for opening up more pain. I wasn't meaning to poke fun, just let Icon know that at least he and I don't resort to this kind of verbal warfare.

Certainly, and WD and Icon will verify this as truth, I am not on their teams in any way. They are always disagreeing with me, and Icon and I have had some kncok down, drag out fights, but nothing ever came close to this. I am surprised the mods haven't taken action, as I was hit with infractions for referring to someone last year having an "intelligent rearend [to sit on]."

I have never disagreed with your posts or had anything but respect for them. You do not engage in back and forth posts that demean others. Posts 41-50 were way over the line. You have no fault in any of this.

 

[saturneptune]

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[Iconoclast]

Saturneptune

You can continue with your demeaning expressions like the ones I quoted. In this case it is "your lame attempt," "you have unresolved issues," "you cannot grasp it." on and on.


You tried to pick a fight with me last year in the same way.I remember.


You do not like my posts...well now lets see what edifying language you expressed yourself with...maybe I can learn by your shining example???lets see

You two are pathetic.

You are at least half of the problem.

This is the exact reason that your posts have no validity

That is a total falsehood.

Who are you to make such statements?

Heresy is a serious word. Those who use it in relation to Calvinism, free will, Creation, end times, KJVO, Landmarkism, heaven, hell, covenant vs dispy, etc, etc are theological nut cases

My contention is that you cannot carry on a back and forth on theology, therefore use phrases such as this.

The writings of historical dead theologeans make interesting reading, but so do comic books.

There is no excuse for any true Baptist putting any stock in creeds or chants. A parrot can do that.

PB has a much deeper understanding of sovereignty than you. In fact, no doubt both of you have statues of Calvin in your living rooms. While you are at it, you can take your interpretation of Jeremiah and stick it up your left nostril.

Well...no...this does not look promising now, does it? Looks like the problem is identified easily here.

 

[saturneptune]

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[Luke2427]

....OKAY?!?!?!:saint:

In other words the reason God cannot be blamed is not because he gives everybody a shot.

He cannot be blamed because he is GOD.

He does not give everyone a fair shot and it is presumptuous for anyone to think he ought to.

He does not owe anyone anything and if he made some vessels just FTP destroy them because it pleases Him who are you or I or Christopher Hitchens to hold him to account.

We are nothing and we DARE NOT purport that Gods goodness hinges on his determination to be fair to the likes of creatures like us.

He is God and let all the earth keep silent before him.

 

[Iconoclast]

Saturneptune

If you cannot take it, then do not dish it out. The responses you receive are exactly what you deserve.

There is nothing you offer that i cannot handle, you attacked me ...flat out.I was not even a main person in this one, I was trying to get Pb to back off.
This is the second time you have done this...so as I posted back then, you would do well to ignore what I post...you do not understand it.

Another problem is your hang-up with Who knows more, or who has a better understanding...you keep saying this.

Ask the christian world who they would rather read-

Calvin...or saturneptune>

Matthew Henry...or spiderman

John Owen...or batman comics..

I do not want to say your posts were not sharp or anything...but it is you that have posted this garbage and made this attack.

 

[Iconoclast]

In other words the reason God cannot be blamed is not because he gives everybody a shot.

He cannot be blamed because he is GOD.

He does not give everyone a fair shot and it is presumptuous for anyone to think he ought to.

He does not owe anyone anything and if he made some vessels just FTP destroy them because it pleases Him who are you or I or Christopher Hitchens to hold him to account.

We are nothing and we DARE NOT purport that Gods goodness hinges on his determination to be fair to the likes of creatures like us.

He is God and let all the earth keep silent before him.

Luke 2427///did i have a correct read on your responses in post 30-31?
Have I understood what you posted and how you posted it to PB???

 

[saturneptune]

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[Iconoclast]

Or Iconoclast opinions or Scripture. It is readily apparant why you would admire the way Calvin lead his life.

:laugh: You have already joined winman in saying I am a parrot, remember ... so you cannot have it both ways... either I am a parrot of the puritans and offer that...or...my opinions. By the way...your shooting off your mouth about Calvin as if you were his judge and where there to know exactly what happened is a ninth commandment violation...... you have MURDERED HIM in your heart more than anything you can accuse him of.

 

[saturneptune]

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[Iconoclast]

That has been your problem all along, the inability to separate admiration of Calvin and God's sovereignty. If you had read his writings or studied his life, you would not be so quick to defend him. So now, you not have implied me not a Christian, but a murderer. It is a privilege to put you where you belong. Other posters might sit there and take it from you, but I will not.

I implied nothing .I stated very plainly what I have said. I never said I admire, or do not admire Calvin.I believed the truth before I heard of Him , or read any quote ascribed to Him.
I have seen people defend him and attack him. I was not there God is his Saviour or judge.

So now, you not have implied me not a Christian, but a murderer. It is a privilege to put you where you belong.

I have not implied anything except in your shallow thoughts. I have no problem dealing with big mouthed people...in the truck they get on the CB and shoot their mouth off...they are known as CB Rambos.... this is not new to me. You want to attack , twist my words, and fight...you got it.
I was taught not to start any trouble...but if it starts...to finish it.

Others want to discuss and debate..they get that.I told you last year and repeat it now...you go your way...I am not interested in your
Foghorn Leghorn rants about gluttons and gossips at your potluck suppers, and then speaking against elders and other presbyterian brothers.

It might be cultural, or a heart issue .It is there however as I said last time.

 

[saturneptune]

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[Bob Alkire]

I will say yes today but if you would have ask me before 67 would have said no. As I've said many times I was raised up in a staunch Calvinistic Presbyterian home and church. We were taught in church in predestination, that if you weren't predestine to salvation and heaven you were going to hell.
Then in seminary they tried to sell a softer form of Calvinism, that if you weren't predestine to salvation you weren't predestine to hell, made no sense to me. So for the first time in my life I read the bible without shall we say Calvinistic glasses on.
I just couldn't believe God would ask folks to do what they can't do, so now I say yes if you reject Christ you are going to hell, it is all due to your volition. But like most folks I believe God knows who will accept Him, He know all.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke 2427///did i have a correct read on your responses in post 30-31?
Have I understood what you posted and how you posted it to PB???

Yes, and I appreciate it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I will say yes today but if you would have ask me before 67 would have said no. As I've said many times I was raised up in a staunch Calvinistic Presbyterian home and church. We were taught in church in predestination, that if you weren't predestine to salvation and heaven you were going to hell.
Then in seminary they tried to sell a softer form of Calvinism, that if you weren't predestine to salvation you weren't predestine to hell, made no sense to me. So for the first time in my life I read the bible without shall we say Calvinistic glasses on.
I just couldn't believe God would ask folks to do what they can't do, so now I say yes if you reject Christ you are going to hell, it is all due to your volition. But like most folks I believe God knows who will accept Him, He know all.

Bob, I dismiss anything Presbyterian & refuse to be called a Calvinist because of their refusal to focus.....rather they have long ago stopped evaluating the scriptures because they have formulated a theology that they sell the world is IRON CLAD. Now with that said, a Baptist is a baptist because they thoroughly review & debate the interpretation of scriptures in an effort to understand.. I would also say that a good measurement for anyone wanting to radically evaluate your beliefs & how far you have come is to measure yourself against a Roman Catholic. How far are you removed from catholic dogma? Only you can answer that question by constant evaluation of your understanding of scripture.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

All of the posters here do know that we have people attempting to understand Christianity (who may not post) reading this thread & these posts....right!

God help any of us if we were to dissuade a single soul away from the blood of Christ & eternal security. It is shameful behavior. Stop, reread the posts & reset.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Brother Earth Wind and Fire...

You posted......



I'm not.

Its Gods great saving grace that I am advocating.

Im sorry brother ....I was not describing you directly (perhaps my post was poorly worded) Rather I was attempting to make it a general statement.

I apologize if it appeared to attack you personally....not my intention.

 

[Yeshua1]

okay, I'll leave you to your theology.

here is the theology of the Bible regarding this!

All of us as seen by God as either being in Adam, sinners, or else in Christ, saints!

God judged/comdemned ALL thru fall of Adam, as Adam was our representative before god, as all humns were in Him to be coming forward...

head of sinners

Jesus is head of saints, their representative, same testing came to him and he passed, and he represents us the saints before God!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

here is the theology of the Bible regarding this!

All of us as seen by God as either being in Adam, sinners, or else in Christ, saints!

God judged/comdemned ALL thru fall of Adam, as Adam was our representative before god, as all humns were in Him to be coming forward...

head of sinners

Jesus is head of saints, their representative, same testing came to him and he passed, and he represents us the saints before God!

It is good to see you brother displaying your faith with confidence :thumbsup:

But what would you say to the Semi Pelagian or full Pelagian who tells you he just does not believe in Radical Depravity, Regeneration & Preservation---isn't that a deal braker right there?