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Is it true that only the Pauline Epistles apply to us?
- Thread starter Guido
- Start date
No, no, no.
I have no idea who you are listening to, but just stop listening to them.
Start Listening to John Piper and his sermons that go through the book of Hebrews. He will be very helpful to you.
Hebrews
Understand that Hebrews is very likely a sermon that the Apostle Paul gave to the church in Jerusalem just before he was imprisoned. Most likely, Luke recorded the sermon for us. Moreso, you need to understand the connection the speaker is making to the book of Exodus and Leviticus in regard to the Old Covenant, the priesthood, and the tabernacle. Hebrews connects us to a covenant making God who has made a covenant with us.
CalTech
Active Member
No, the Whole of the Old Testament and the New Testament applies to us.
The whole of the Bible is for Spiritual discernment and revelation through the Unction of the Holy Spirit.
For it is He which reveals and confirms the testimony of Jesus Christ in both. For it is the Holy Spirit that teaches us, as stated in 1 John 2: 20 & 27:
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
And when we "abide" in Him, then:
1Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
1Jn 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
Eph_5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
The Lord bless you......
In His Love.....
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
No, the entire Bible is profitable for us. It has all been written for us:
1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
2 Timothy 3
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
2 Timothy 3
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
What about Revelation?
why not?
why are the others in the NT if true?
what good are they?
why not?
why are the others in the NT if true?
what good are they?
The book of Hebrews, according to John Piper, teaches that salvation will no more be available to the one who falls away. Do you agree with this view?
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I’d be surprised if that’s Piper’s position. I’d have to do some research.
Hebrews 6 is a rejection of the idea a Christian can lose their salvation, imo.
If a person maintains you can lose your salvation, then Hebrews 6 is clear you could never regain it and states the reason for this impossibility as “you would have to crucify Jesus all over again”. That is pretty clear.
The writer, however, just a few verses later states he is “convinced of better things concerning you, the things that accompany salvation”. He then stated “perseverance” is one of the things that sccompanys salvation.
peace to you
It is not Piper's position. From his commentary -
"For these five reasons I conclude that if a person falls away and re-crucifies the Son of God, he has never been justified. His faith was not a saving faith."
Piper points to Hebrews 12:15-17 and other verses ("Today if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.") to state that those who hear the gospel and reject Christ may not receive a second call. If they continue to push against God, there may be a time when, like Esau, there is no chance to receive God's grace.
See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.
This is similar to Paul's comment in Romans 1 where God gives people over to their own will, which continually corrupts to a worse and worse degree.
So, if a person who goes to church begins to drift and fall away, that person may never have been saved and God may not call them back.
Piper will point out that the preacher to the Hebrews continually says "but you are not like those who fall away," meaning that those whom God has saved will persevere to the end and not fall away.
Listen to his sermons through the entire book. You will recognize he presents what I have shared.
But how do you explain all the other warning passages?
Please note the other warning passages
Is it true that only the Pauline Epistles apply to us?
Nosireebob!!
Nosireebob!!
It is not that repentance is blocked, as men will not believe apart from God's work in their lives.
(It isn't God preventing men from coming to Him, but that men will not come to Him apart from God working to draw them to Himself).
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The context is key to understanding the warning passages of Hebrews. Look at the background.
When Christianity first began in the 1st century, it was considered by the Roman government as a sect within Judaism. As such, it was an “approved” religion by the Romans.
By the time Hebrews was written, Christianity was seen by the Roman government as a separate religion, therefore followers were beginning to experience persecution by the government. Christian converts from Judaism wee tempted to return to Judaism to avoid the persecution.
The writer of Hebrews is warning that such a move back to Judaism (falling away) to avoid persecution was a denial of the Savior.
He spends a lot of time explaining why Jesus is “better”. Jesus is a better revelation, better than angels, better sacrifice, better High Priest etc… better, better, better.
So the warning not to “fall away” is a warning to Jewish converts not return to the protection of Judaism. Doing so would deny the Savior.
peace to you
At the very least care should be taken before adopting doctrine for the Church from the gospels.
24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15
And the Book of Acts
That would be the viewpoint of Hyper dispy
Here you need to understand that I believe repentance is an effect of God making us alive with Christ (Ephesians 2:1-10). Therefore the capacity to repent is never blocked for the one whom God has elected to save.
However, we all know church attenders who do all the traditional things that a church goer will do. They pray, they sing, they perform all the tasks, but God has never made them alive with Christ. They do all that they do in the power of the flesh, to feed their ego. They have never been crucified with Christ. It is this person whom God may harden and leave them with no capacity to repent, even though they are remorseful. It happened with Esau.
Guido, check your heart.