Is Jesus Omniscient?

[KenH]

I have not seen anybody implying that on this thread.

You started off by begging the question in proclaiming that if Jesus did not know the hour He couldn't be God.

You never proved that conclusion.

I disagree. You just don't accept the conclusion.

 

[JonC]

I disagree. You just don't accept the conclusion.

I don't accept the conclusion because as it stands the conclusion is just assumed.

You claim that Jesus not being omniscient would mean He is not God.

I'm not saying the conclusion is right or wrong.

I'm saying you are begging the question. You need to prove (or at least attempt to prove) the conclusion.

For example, here is a short list about God:

God is omniscient.
God is not man.
God is Spirit.
God is immutable.
God is omnipresent.
God is above all.


Off the top, we at least can say Jesus is man. He was "made a little lower than the angles". He became "flesh".

So just saying "God is____" therefore if Christ while on earth "wasn't______" then He wasn't God doesn't cut it.

Why would the Son not knowing the hour, and only the Father knowing the hour, mean that Jesus was not God?

Why would Christ not being omniscient between His incarnation and resurrection make Him less than God?

 

[JonC]

I disagree. You just don't accept the conclusion.

The issue is you are adopting the argument of the Pharisees who rejected Christ.

Their argument:

If Jesus is man He can't be God because God is not man, therefore His reference to "I Am" is blasphemy.

Your argument:

If Jesus was not omniscient He can't be God because God is omniscient therefore any claim that challenges His omniscience denies His divinity.

 

[KenH]

I'm saying you are begging the question.

 

[KenH]

If Jesus was not omniscient He can't be God because God is omniscient therefore any claim that challenges His omniscience denies His divinity.

Christ Jesus was never and will never be less than fully God, whether on this earth or in Heaven or in the new heavens and earth. Period. I am surprised anyone on a theologically mainstream board such as this one, other than maybe in a forum such as "Other Christian Denominations", would attempt to make such a case.

 

[JonC]

Zackly.

 

[JonC]

Christ Jesus was never and will never be less than fully God, whether on this earth or in Heaven or in the new heavens and earth. Period. I am surprised anyone on a theologically mainstream board such as this one, other than maybe in a forum such as "Other Christian Denominations", would attempt to make such a case.

We all agree that Christ Jesus was never and will never be less than fully God, whether on this earth or in Heaven or in the new heavens and earth. Period.

NOBODY on this thread is arguing otherwise.

Stop fighting Strawmen.

 

[KenH]

Stop fighting Strawmen.

Just pointing out unBiblical reasoning in this thread.

 

[JonC]

Just pointing out unBiblical reasoning in this thread.

By posting against something that doesn't exist on this thread? How does that work?

 

[KenH]

By posting against something that doesn't exist on this thread? How does that work?

We disagree on its existence on this thread.

 

[Van]

You are, of course, wrong. But that's fine. It is not necessary that you grasp how I define "omniscience".

There are many views here (not just the one I actually believe, inherent omniscience, and the one you falsely attribute to me).

Open Theists view omniscience as knowing all that can be known (which would exclude content events, unless directly determined).

And to expound on the definition you pretend to be mine, there is omniscience that would include middle knowledge, or every possible outcome.

Also, given "Inherent Omniscience", we need to consider whether omniscience is an attribute or an ability.

So it is my failure to grasp what you did not state. Got it.

 

[Van]

Once again we have a multi-page thread concerning "omniscience" with posters failing to define what they believe the term means.

Was Jesus omniscient while on earth? Depends of what is meant by "omniscient." If you define it as knowing everything imaginable, then No. If you define it as God the Son knowing everything He chose to know, then Yes He was omniscient.
He did not know the time of His return, so He did not know everything imaginable. He was "all knowing" according to John 21:17 so He knew whatever He deemed to know.

 

[JonC]

We disagree on its existence on this thread.

By the existence of what? Nobody here has claimed that Jesus is less than God (that is factual).

The only thing that we've disagreed about is whether only the Father knows the hour.

You made the claim that if only the Father knew the hour then Jesus isn't God.

I believe the verse correct.

 

[AustinC]

Once again we have a multi-page thread concerning "omniscience" with posters failing to define what they believe the term means.

Was Jesus omniscient while on earth? Depends of what is meant by "omniscient." If you define it as knowing everything imaginable, then No. If you define it as God the Son knowing everything He chose to know, then Yes He was omniscient.
He did not know the time of His return, so He did not know everything imaginable. He was "all knowing" according to John 21:17 so He knew whatever He deemed to know.

We can take it that you don't think Jesus was omniscient on earth since omniscient does mean "knowing all things (universal "all").

 

[JonC]

So it is my failure to grasp what you did not state. Got it.

My bad. I thought I gave my definition of omniscience.

I define omniscience as "all knowing" as the word comes from omniscientia which is a combination of omnis (all) and sciens (knowing).

 

[Van]

Wikipedia defines Omniscience as:

Omniscience (/ɒmˈnɪʃəns/)[1] is the capacity to know everything.​

This is a valid definition of God's Omniscience as revealed in scripture.

The other views are unbiblical.

 

[Van]

We can take it that you don't think Jesus was omniscient on earth since omniscient does mean "knowing all things (universal "all").

Why are you posting, Sir. Please address how Jesus knows all things (universal "all") but not the time of his return. If all you are able to do is run from the obvious, there is not need of your posts.

 

[JonC]

We can take it that you don't think Jesus was omniscient on earth since omniscient does mean "knowing all things (universal "all").

Seems like @Van changes omniscience from an attribute to an ability (like a super power one may or may not use at any given time).

Superman is faster than a speeding bullet, when he wants to be. But he can also sit around and watch TV with Lois Lane.

It is a rejection of how we typically view divine omniscience (God knowing all).

 

[JonC]

Wikipedia defines Omniscience as:

Omniscience (/ɒmˈnɪʃəns/)[1] is the capacity to know everything.​

This is a valid definition of God's Omniscience as revealed in scripture.

The other views are unbiblical.

....Wikipedia....anything else is unbiblical.

 

[Van]

My bad. I thought I gave my definition of omniscience.

I define omniscience as "all knowing" as the word comes from omniscientia which is a combination of omnis (all) and sciens (knowing).

Give me a break, "all knowing" does not define whether "all" refers to everything imaginable. Since Jesus did not know the time of His return, He was not all (everying imaginable) knowing.
I thought to said your view was inherent omniscience, post #115,

There are many views here (not just the one I actually believe, inherent omniscience, and the one you falsely attribute to me).​