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Featured Is Jesus Omniscient?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AustinC, Dec 26, 2022.

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Was Jesus omniscient on earth?

  1. Jesus exercised some dimensions of omniscience while on earth but subjected it to God

    1 vote(s)
    20.0%

  2. Jesus displayed omniscience in moral attributes but not amoral attributes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  3. In his incarnation, Jesus laid aside the use of his attribute of omniscience.

    4 vote(s)
    80.0%
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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Please address the definition, rather than deflect with disparagement of the source.

    Omniscience (/ɒmˈnɪʃəns/)[1] is the capacity to know everything.​
    The above definition is "Inherent Omniscience."
     
    #141 Van, Dec 29, 2022
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again we have a multi-page thread concerning "omniscience" with posters failing to define what they believe the term means.

    Was Jesus omniscient while on earth? Depends of what is meant by "omniscient." If you define it as knowing everything imaginable, then No. If you define it as God the Son knowing everything He chose to know, then Yes He was omniscient.
    He did not know the time of His return, so He did not know everything imaginable. He was "all knowing" according to John 21:17 so He knew whatever He deemed to know.
     
    #142 Van, Dec 29, 2022
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    You apparently claim that Christ Jesus is omniscient but not always omniscient.

    It is not correct, it is not Biblical, it is not logical, it is not possible that God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit are ever anything other than 100% OMNIPOTENT, 100% OMNIPRESENT, 100% OMNICSCIENT, 100% IMMUTABLE.

    This is a really dangerous, false, unBiblical, God dishonoring, idea being thrown around here in this thread like so much confetti that God can be fully something at one time, then not fully something another time, etc., etc., etc.

    If such stuff was even in the least bit true, then this entire universe would have spun off into total chaos long, long, long ago.
     
    #143 KenH, Dec 29, 2022
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Exactly.

    I never said "all" refers to "everything imaginable".

    YOU attributed that to me.

    I didn't say that I believe Inherent Omniscience (you misunderstood my post....I didn't mean the comment to be saying my view but instead listing three views ... 1. My definition, 2. Inherent Omniscience, and 3. The definition you falsely attribute to me).

    Looking at the post, I can see why you made the mistake (it wasn't clear in my post as it could be read either way).
     
    #144 JonC, Dec 29, 2022
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Still failing to address the meaning of "all" in "all knowing!"
     
    #145 Van, Dec 29, 2022
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. I have not made any such claim.

    I said have only said three things regarding my belief:

    1. I define "omniscience" as "all knowing".
    2. I lean towards #3 on the OP poll.
    3. I believe that only the Father knew the hour.

    Here is why:

    1. I define omniscience as "all knowing" as the word comes from omniscientia which is a combination of omnis (all) and sciens (knowing).

    2. There are instances where Jesus says that He didn't know something, but He is God and an attribute of God is omniscience (just as Jesus was in particular locations, but an attribute of God is omnipresence). It's a leaning, not a dogmatic claim.

    3. Scripture says that of the hour only the Father knows. I accept the passage as true.


    Everything else you just attributed to me because I observed you made an unsupported conclusion.
     
    #146 JonC, Dec 29, 2022
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I didn't address the "all". You are correct there.

    My observation was that you falsely addressed the "all" for me.

    You made assumptions.
     
    #147 JonC, Dec 29, 2022
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Not true.

    I claim that only the Father knew the hour because that is what Scripture says.

    I made no attempt to reconcile that with omniscience as I feel no need to do so.

    The Bible says only the Father knew and I can just accept that as true.
     
    #148 JonC, Dec 29, 2022
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I have presented biblical truth, and asked you to acknowledge that truth, and you have decided not to engage. Fine.

    Was Jesus omniscient while on earth? Depends of what is meant by "omniscient." If you define it as knowing everything imaginable, then No. If you define it as God the Son knowing everything He chose to know, then Yes He was omniscient.
    He did not know the time of His return, so He did not know everything imaginable. He was "all knowing" according to John 21:17 so He knew whatever He deemed to know. Omniscience is the capacity to know everything.
     
    #149 Van, Dec 29, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2022
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Let's narrow this down, @JonC. Do you believe that Christ Jesus in His Divine nature is 100% omniscient, including during His time in a human body on this earth? Yes or no?
     
    #150 KenH, Dec 29, 2022
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, this is a false claim.

    Biblical truth is that God is omniscient, Jesus is God, and there was something only the Father knew.

    You presented philosophy to reconcile those bibblical truths.

    You are complaining that I do not feel a need to reconcile what does seem to be a logical issue. But what you present is not biblical truth.
     
    #151 JonC, Dec 29, 2022
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I don't know how Jesus' divine attributes operated between his incarnation and resurrection.

    I believe that only the Father knew the hour because that is what the Bible states.

    I believe Jesus is fully God and fully man - No less God in His divinity and no more man in His humanity.

    Beyond that is vain philosophy. It leads some to redefine omniscience and others to deny Scripture.
     
    #152 JonC, Dec 29, 2022
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    So you do not confess that Christ Jesus was, is, and always will be 100% omniscient at all times, including during His time in a human body on this earth.

    [​IMG]
     
    #153 KenH, Dec 29, 2022
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Do I confess that Jesus is/was 100% omniscient at all times?

    I don't know. He "emptied" Himself, taking the form of a servant. Does this mean He set aside omniscience? I don't know. Does this mean He didn't? I don't know.

    I do know that Jesus is 100% God and 100% man.

    I also know that only the Father knew that hour.

    Do you believe that...that ONLY the Father knew the hour?
     
    #154 JonC, Dec 29, 2022
  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Ken, it seems to me that Gill also divided Jesus nature by saying there is one nature, fully human, and another nature, fully God. The full nature of God is omniscient. The full nature of man is finite and not always knowing. You have stated that you believe Gill has best expressed this duality, which upholds Jesus attributes as fully God and fully man. What, then, is your contention? It seems you may be disagreeing with Gill on this matter, which is fine, but I am not entirely sure what you are contending against, unless you disagree with the duality of Jesus nature. Please clarify.
     
    #155 AustinC, Dec 29, 2022
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    @KenH

    Scripture tells us. “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." Matthew 24:35–36

    @KenH , do you believe of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone?
     
    #156 JonC, Dec 29, 2022
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You can make your claims till the cows come home. I have presented biblical truth, and asked you to acknowledge that truth, and you have decided not to engage. Fine.

    Was Jesus omniscient while on earth? Depends of what is meant by "omniscient." If you define it as knowing everything imaginable, then No. If you define it as God the Son knowing everything He chose to know, then Yes He was omniscient.
    He did not know the time of His return, so He did not know everything imaginable. He was "all knowing" according to John 21:17 so He knew whatever He deemed to know. Omniscience is the capacity to know everything.
     
    #157 Van, Dec 29, 2022
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. You are saying that Jesus was omniscient when He chose to be, but less than omniscient when He chose to be.


    omniscient
    adjective
    om·ni·scient äm-ˈni-shənt

    1: having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight. an omniscient authorthe narrator seems an omniscient person who tells us about the characters and their relations—Ira Konigsberg

    2: possessed of universal or complete knowledge
    the omniscient God

    Definition of OMNISCIENT
     
    #158 JonC, Dec 29, 2022
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You are saying if you know less than everything imaginable, you are not omniscient. But you have no biblical basis for that definition. Your view is unbiblical as demonstrated in post #157. This is the biblical definition: Omniscience is the capacity to know everything.
     
    #159 Van, Dec 29, 2022
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I'm not saying that at all.

    I do not even believe all things imaginable are things to be known.

    I just posted the definition of omniscience.
     
    #160 JonC, Dec 29, 2022
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