Is lying ever good?

"if the 2 had not" - that's like supposing Judas didn't betray Jesus. Again, did Jesus have a sudden lapse of foreknowledge? He REALLY MEANT to keep going, but was surprised by their reaction and changed His mind?

Speaking of which, why did Jesus even appear in a form where He was not immediately recognized? Was that an accident? Something malfunctioned with the transformer ray when He decided to appear? "Oh shoot - now I understand why they're acting like they don't know me. I had the switch set on 'Anthony Zerbe' by mistake. Hey fellas, it's me - sorry!"

 

HoG,

Please don't accuse me of dishonesty. You do not know me. It has been more than 2 decades since I was able to see clear enough to drive a car, much less pay attention to a woman's features.

I can honestly say that for several months before my sight began dimming, I was given grace by my Lord to look beyond mere pictures and faces and look to the character. For that is where the true beauty of a person lies.

Now, I think you owe me an apology.

 

I do not understand why I'm being questioned like this just because I don't believe Jesus would deceive someone. Just what kind of argument are you trying to make?

I don't think the transformer ray malfunctioned. If you go back to verse 25 of this passage you'll see that it was the 2 men who had the malfunction.

Luke 24
25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
God does not lie. God does not deceive. That's Satan's MO.

 

So what you're saying is Jesus appeared as Jesus always appeared, albeit with a spear hole in His side, etc., and they were so slow of heart (dimwitted) they just didn't notice it was Him?

Look, I'm just reading what's there. Jesus appeared in a way (ostensibly on purpose) that He was not immediately recognized. He ACTED like He was going to keep going. If you want to call that deception, that's your label, but I attach the word deception to evil intent. Maybe that's not the true definition, but that's generally how I see it. I don't see evil intent here, but I do see that Jesus intentionally disguised Himself, and pretended to keep going.

Sorry, but I just read it, believe it all happened the way it's described, and Jesus had a good reason for doing what He did, just the way He did it.

Oh - and as to God not deceiving, I guess that doesn't include delusion?

 

Ok, but what does this have to do with the OP? Is lying ever good? Are you saying that it was good that Jesus lied? Why are we arguing about this? They didn't recognize Jesus. I don't know why. But why would Jesus deceive (not my word) them about going farther?

 

Sorry, this had nothing to do with "lying is good". I got off on a tangent because people were denying that the text says what it says. It's obvious Jesus disguised Himself and pretended to keep going, and I'll be damned (and I'm afraid that's quite literal) if I'm going to change what it says because I'm afraid the plain reading of the text would tarnish God's image. In addition to this passage, it's clear (from passages like 2 Thess 2:11) that God DOES use things like delusion to accomplish His good pleasure. I have no problem with that. I'm not going to talk back to God and dictate what He can or cannot do to accomplish His will. Just writing that makes me feel incredibly silly.

 

I'm sure I can introduce you to a few.

I'm not talking about the outside.

 

Bearing false witness in a trial before the Levites amounts to lying, in such a way, that Justice is thwarted.

But Jehu's lie was such that Justice was done.

Likewise, "Never shalt thou murder!" is an injunction against killing someone wrongfully, because they cut in front of you on the highway and/or you wanted to steal their car. That is a case of homicide => injustice.

But, the Ba'alists were enemies of Almighty God who were aggressively attacking (if covertly, subtly, through subversion) Godliness on Earth, and trying to lure others into satan's camp. Eradicating the Ba'alists => justice.

After all, "Never shalt thou murder!" is the 6th Commandment (Ex 20:13). "Never shalt thou bear false witness against your neighbor!" is the 9th Commandment (Ex 20:16). But the Ba'alists were breaking the 1st Commandment ("Never shalt thou have other gods before Me!"), and wittingly and willingly luring others to do the same.

May I humbly offer that the "underlying principal" is one of social justice.

 

Those who God sends strong delusions to are those who are left after the rapture. Those people had already denied Christ. They refused the love of the truth.

That has nothing to do with Christ walking down the road. Christ was not deceptive in the least. Had those men not constrained Him to tarry (forced Him against that which He purposed to do), had they not urged Him to tarry ( that is what compel means), He would no doubt continued on His journey.

They did not just say 'Come on in', they urged Him.

 

That, we can agree on!

 

Okay, so what you're saying is it's okay for God to send a strong delusion as long as the people deserve it. Or, in short, God never does it, except when He does it.

Speaking of what they deserve, let me ask you this: Did Job deserve the torture that satan put him through? Please think carefully before you answer that. Or at least re-read Job first.

 

What about YHWH-God's boundless Mercy?

 

Amen! Good to end on that note!

 

With all due respect, this is categorically not true (!). By misleading Jericho's defenders, she helped the Israelites conquer Jericho and put those hapless defenders to death:

Joshua 6:20:21
20So the people shouted, and the trumpets were blown. As soon as the people heard the sound of the trumpet, the people shouted a great shout, and the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they captured the city. 21Then they devoted all in the city to destruction, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys, with the edge of the sword.​

I understand what you are saying, but this specific example of yours is way wrong.

 

This is, perhaps, a subtle point, but HBSMN is right. Ahab's false Ba'al-prophets were made to lie = sinners made to sin. Ahab being forced to believe them = sinner made to sin.

It is like YHWH hardening the Pharaoh's heart to bring about the Exodus, yes? The Pharaoh was a sinner, and YHWH-God seems to have exascerbated that sin to bring about Pharaoh's destruction and Israel's liberation...

but, although Pharaoh's heart was hardened to make Pharaoh sin, and Ahab's false Baal prophets made to lie, "God's Crew" doesn't lie/sin (lie = sin, as HBSMN proved w/ Rev 21:27).

 

Please cite the specific scriptures.

 

You doubt? Upon what authority?? Ahh, yes, your own "instinct", your own "opinion" and "sense" of what "should" be.

But what does Scripture say?

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in YHWH with all thy heart, and lean not upon thine own understanding​

YHWH-God is Boss. YHWH-God makes the rules. You obey them.

You do not think.

You do not question.

You do not say "but" or "what about this/that".

You just do, and be grateful to YHWH-God for creating this Universe and you.

That is what it means to submit to Will of YHWH-God.

 

It may be worth mentioning that, at the time of her lies, Rahab was not an Israelite = God's Crew. She was a pagan/heathen who fought Canaanite sin with sin (her lies).

Only afterwards did she, according to tradition, marry Joshua and become an Israelitess.

 

"He acted as if he were going farther" just means he made the motions of walking, etc, that indicated he was planning to continue on. Here is the way it reads in Young's Literal Translation:

Luke24:28 And they drew near to the village where they were going, and *he* made as though he would go farther.

There is no deception here, just the Messiah being flagged down by those wanting to see him.