Is lying ever good?

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Knowing whose name other than mine is in the Lamb's Book of Life is not important.

We are responsible only for ourselves, nobodys else... other than to witness Christ to them.

But the Lamb's Book of Life has nothing to do with the fact that God nowhere told His people to lie. As a matter of Fact, His people are commanded not to lie.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

If Rahab was justified, why wouldn't she be in the lambs book of life?

For one thing, Rahab was before Christ. Her faith was in God the Father, not Jesus Christ the Son. They were looking for a coming Messiah. We are looking for the coming King.

Old Testament saints were justified by faith, but it was not faith in the Son of God. Their faith was in Jehovah God.

We are justified by faith also, but our faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ who loved us and gave Himself for us.

 

[Amy.G]

For one thing, Rahab was before Christ. Her faith was in God the Father, not Jesus Christ the Son. They were looking for a coming Messiah. We are looking for the coming King.

Old Testament saints were justified by faith, but it was not faith in the Son of God. Their faith was in Jehovah God.

We are justified by faith also, but our faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ who loved us and gave Himself for us.

I assume Rahab was justified the same way as other OT saints. I have wondered about her though. It has always sort of bothered me that the Bible says she was justified and she was also mentioned in the hall of faith, yet she lied to the spies. I have to say I don't understand that, but who am I to question God? I think that's the point of the OP, to understand these things, not to say it's ok to lie, because it certainly is NOT.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Truthfully, I do not believe Rahab, nor any of the OT saints are in the Lamb's Book of Life. Those saints who were justified by their faith in Jehovah God did not know Christ. They sacrificed animals for the covering for their sins. Their Life did not come by faith in the shed blood of Christ but by faith in Jehovah God and their obedience in the animal sacrifices made in the tabernacle.

Were they saved? Most assuredly, I believe they were. I beleive when Christ died on that cross and many that were dead were seen in the city... I believe the many once dead were none other than those OT saints; Rahab included.

I believe they now reside in heaven and when the trump sounds for the Rapture of the Church, we will meet Christ in the air. He will take us to His Father's House, where we will indeed see the OT saints who were raised when Christ died.

I believe the OT saints are not of the Bride of Christ, but are indeed the guests at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

 

[Amy.G]

Truthfully, I do not believe Rahab, nor any of the OT saints are in the Lamb's Book of Life. Those saints who were justified by their faith in Jehovah God did not know Christ. They sacrificed animals for the covering for their sins. Their Life did not come by faith in the shed blood of Christ but by faith in Jehovah God and their obedience in the animal sacrifices made in the tabernacle.

Were they saved? Most assuredly, I believe they were. I beleive when Christ died on that cross and many that were dead were seen in the city... I believe the many once dead were none other than those OT saints; Rahab included.

I believe they now reside in heaven and when the trump sounds for the Rapture of the Church, we will meet Christ in the air. He will take us to His Father's House, where we will indeed see the OT saints who were raised when Christ died.

I believe the OT saints are not of the Bride of Christ, but are indeed the guests at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

I agree. I guess the question is, how can Rahab be justified and saved even though she lied? How can helping someone be justified when helping them required lying? Are there times when God overlooks a lie? It seems so in this case.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I do not believe God overlooked it. We are not told what Rahab did as a result of her helping the two escape. It is possible that she made sacrifice and the sacrifice covered for that lie she told. But God certainly did not overlook it.

 

[Amy.G]

I do not believe God overlooked it. We are not told what Rahab did as a result of her helping the two escape. It is possible that she made sacrifice and the sacrifice covered for that lie she told. But God certainly did not overlook it.

I suppose that's possible. I hadn't thought of that. It's hard to know since the Bible doesn't say. This is a difficult subject.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Many 'gray areas' in the Word of God are only gray because we have not fully studied out a topic or passage. Many will remain 'gray areas'.

 

[ktn4eg]

I found the following commentary concerning Rahab's lying to be interesting [quoting here from a note on Joshua 2:4-5 found in the Life Application Bible, (c) 1996, Tyndale House]:

"Was Rahab justified in lying to save the lives of the spies? Although the Bible does not speak negatively about her lie, it is clear that lying is sin. In Hebrews 11:31, however, Rahab is commended for her faith in God. Her lie is not mentioned. Several explanations have been offered: (1) God forgave Rahab's lie because of her faith; (2) Rahab was simply deceiving the enemy, a normal and acceptable practice in wartime; (3) Because Rahab was not a Jew, she could not be held responsible for keeping the moral standards set forth in God's law; (4) Rahab broke a lesser principle--telling the truth--to uphold a higher principle--protecting God's people.

"There may have been another way to save the lives of the Israelite spies. But under the pressure of the moment, Rahab had to make a choice. Most of us will face dilemmas at one time or another. We may feel there is no perfect solution to our problem. Fortunately, God does not demand that our judgment be perfect in all situations. He simply asks us to put our trust in him and to do the best we know how. Rahab did that and was commended for her faith."

Maybe this [esp. item 3] can shed a little light on this discussion.

 

[Hope of Glory]

So, HBSMN, what is "bearing false witness"?

What do you tell the ugliest girl you've ever seen when she asks you if she's pretty?

FWIW, you might want to take another look at Revelation 21:27. "Worketh" is a present, active, participle, and it's tied into both "abomination" and "lie". It's "One who is making an abomination and a lie. It's durative action and it's joined by "and" not "or", among other problems with your theology on the verse. (The italics in the KJV means that it's a word that's added by the translators and is not in the original text; there is one verb in that phrase used with both nouns.)

It's also followed by a conditional.

 

[Brother Bob]

It also does not say "bear false witness" either. It says "maketh a lie". Maybe we do not have the full understanding of "lie", when it comes to the true meaning with God. I do not know, but don't want to be taking a chance either. I do not think that to remove the word "and" would make a big difference either.

 

[blackbird]

I assume Rahab was justified the same way as other OT saints. I have wondered about her though. It has always sort of bothered me that the Bible says she was justified and she was also mentioned in the hall of faith, yet she lied to the spies. I have to say I don't understand that, but who am I to question God? I think that's the point of the OP, to understand these things, not to say it's ok to lie, because it certainly is NOT.

The Bible says that the spirit indeed is willing but the flesh is weak!!!

The world backed Rahab up into a corner---and she lied to save her hide----all along believing that she was helping God---even if she had to lie to do it!!!

If the world backed you up into a corner----and the world demanded your hide----unless your are so surrendered to the will of the Lord God and it is no longer you who is living but Christ in you----you'd lie too, to save your flesh!!! Because the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak!!!

 

[Amy.G]

ktn4eg:

I found the following commentary concerning Rahab's lying to be interesting [quoting here from a note on Joshua 2:4-5 found in the Life Application Bible, (c) 1996, Tyndale House]:

I have a Life App. Bible too. I don't know why I didn't look that up. I think all those things are possible.

Blackbird:

The Bible says that the spirit indeed is willing but the flesh is weak!!!

The world backed Rahab up into a corner---and she lied to save her hide----all along believing that she was helping God---even if she had to lie to do it!!!

If the world backed you up into a corner----and the world demanded your hide----unless your are so surrendered to the will of the Lord God and it is no longer you who is living but Christ in you----you'd lie too, to save your flesh!!! Because the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak!!!

I agree that if I was backed into a corner I would probably do the same thing even though I know it's a sin to lie. As a mother, I know what it's like to go into "protective mode". :laugh: At times like those, you don't think, you just act.

Abraham lied also to save his hide, and he was a person of great faith! Thank the Lord, He is merciful and understands our human weaknesses. Thank the Lord, we can ask forgiveness and receive it!

 

[Deacon]

I remember reading Corrie Ten Boom's great book, The Hiding Place.
As I remember, at a key moment in her life the Nazi authorities entered her home and asked if there were any Jews hiding in the home.
Her sister couldn't tell a lie and openly confessed that there were, condeming most of those in the house to a horrible death.

Did the sister make a rightous decision?

Does a lie need to be in an oral form?
Can one decieve another by fooling them into believing a deception without really saying a lie?
Would that one be held accountable for the deception?
Does one really need to give the whole truth when a question is asked?

Wife: Do I look fat?
Me: Not to me!

Rob

 

[reformedbeliever]

Would it ever be wrong to lie when answering this question?

Does this dress make me look fat? :laugh:

Simply say "darlin, you make that dress look awesome"!

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

In every Christian there is the Holy Spirit that speaks to that one in times of trouble or distress.

We sing the song 'He Whispers Sweet Peace To Me', but do we truly believe that even in those times when we are backed in to a corner that God's Holy Spirit is indeed assuring us that He is there?

Corrie Ten Boom's sister Betsy did indeed put the family and all in the house in harm's path because of her willingness to listen to the Holy Spirit and not to the flesh.

Yes, the flesh is indeed weak, but sometimes we use that verse as a cop-out. 'I just could not help it' seems to be the general excuse. God's Word says,

1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it]. {common...: or, moderate}

We do not have to give in to those temptations to lie, cheat, steal, kill, covet, whatever the temptation may be. God has made a way of escape. If you are of God, His Spirit is there to strengthen you even during the hardest trials of life and set you on the other side.

Yes, I know many are saying it is easier to say than to do, but if you trust Christ in those situations, He will make it easy to get through.

Look at the many martyrs down through history who could have saved their own lives if they had just bowed to man; but instead, they obeyed Christ and He strengthened them even at the time of death.

Backed into a corner is an excuse, yes. But it is a weak excuse since God has assured us that He would not allow on us more than we can bear.

 

[Hope of Glory]

So, are you going to tell her, "Girl, you're the ugliest person I've ever seen!"

 

[Deacon]

So they drew near to the village to which they were going. He acted as if he were going farther,
but they urged him strongly, saying, “Stay with us, for it is toward evening and the day is now far spent.” So he went in to stay with them.
Luke 24:28-29 (ESV)

Was there an attempt at deception by our Lord?
Was he lead by the Spirit?

Rob

 

[webdog]

Great point!

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

So they drew near to the village to which they were going. He acted as if he were going farther,
but they urged him strongly, saying, “Stay with us, for it is toward evening and the day is now far spent.” So he went in to stay with them.
Luke 24:28-29 (ESV)

Was there an attempt at deception by our Lord?
Was he lead by the Spirit?

Rob

The key in those verses is the word 'constrained' which means they used force to get Christ to stay. Christ was wanting to continue on, He was not deceiving.

Had Christ wanted to stay, they would not have had to use force.