Is Mary Omini-present ?

[Boanerges]

In an answer to the OP, according to Mel Gibson's passion movie, she was.

 

[Matt Black]

Mike, I direct you to this:-

Quoth Eliyahu: Nestorius was a true believer in Christ who was condemned as Heretic by the heretic Roman Catholic people and the slick and tricky boy Cyril of Egypt.

Sounds like we do indeed have a supporter of the 'splitter' Nestorius here...

 

[DeclareHim]

Why do we need to give Mary the title of Mother of God what is the purpose? Do you guys really think God will be upset if we don't use the title or don't give Mary so much credit?

 

[nate]

There is no way around it Mary was the Mother of God unless you buy into Nestorian heresy. No if's,but's or and's.

 

[nate]

Or unless one denies that Jesus is God. For all intents and purposes she was Jesus earthly Mother.

 

[Matt Black]

Amen to both your posts. I'm really really surprised to find these very old heresies rearing their heads on a Christian website.

 

[nate]

Especially a Baptist website!

 

[Eliyahu]

Problem is that so many people cannot believe the deity of Jesus Christ without calling Mary, as Mother of God.

Do you call God is Son of Mary ?

 

[Eliyahu]

Can nobody answer the question ?

Do you call God as Son of Mary ?

 

[Armando]

Originally posted by BobRyan:

God explicitly forbids communicating with the dead. (And for one very good reason)

Bob

Except for Jesus himself, he communicated with Moses and Eliyah during the transfiguration.

Armando

 

[Armando]

Originally posted by Matt Black:
Mike, I direct you to this:-

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Quoth Eliyahu: Nestorius was a true believer in Christ who was condemned as Heretic by the heretic Roman Catholic people and the slick and tricky boy Cyril of Egypt.

Sounds like we do indeed have a supporter of the 'splitter' Nestorius here... </font>[/QUOTE]For the record, first heretic to call Mary Mother of God was Elizabeth during the visitation, didn't she say:

Lk 1,43 "And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"

It will be interesting to see if all the bible believers in this forum can actually call Mary - mother of my Lord.

Armando

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Armando:
the record, first heretic to call Mary Mother of God was Elizabeth during the visitation, didn't she say:

Lk 1,43 "And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"

It will be interesting to see if all the bible believers in this forum can actually call Mary - mother of my Lord.

Armando [/QB]

Calling Mary as Mother of Lord was already dealt with in the previous thread:

Does God have a Mother?


http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/28/3525/3.html?


FYI, Bible mentioned Mary as
1) Mother of Jesus
2) Mother of Lord
3) Mother of James
4) Mother of Jose or Josetos.

Therefore those who oppose Theotokos here including me do not find any problem with Mother of Lord or Mother of our Lord, as we see Adonai had various meanings ( any superior person, i.e when Sarah called Abraham as Lord)

Now what you have to answer are these questions:

1) Do you call God as Son of Mary?
Do you say that God is Son of Mary ?

2) If you mean Mother of God as Mother of God the Son, and you deny Mary as Mother of God the Father of Mother of God the Holy Spirit, then are you splitting Godhead into 3 pieces ?
How would you say, when Jesus said " I and my Father is one (John 10:30) ?

3) Mechizedek and Son of God are mentioned in Heb 7:2-3, where the common aspects of both persons are illustrated:
Both do not have the earthly father, earthly mother, beginning point, ending point, genealogy,

and therefore Melchzedek is like unto Son of God remaining as continuous Priest.

There, you will find that Son of God doesn't have a Mother!
This is the point to be answered by Theotokos asserters.

4) Who is Mechizedek? Was he gone forever? Where is Melchizedek now ? Did he die ?


These have not been answered by Theotokos Asserters.

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Armando:
Except for Jesus himself, he communicated with Moses and Eliyah during the transfiguration.

Armando [/QB]

Yes, it shows that Jesus is the Lord of the living and of the dead.

1) Jesus is the Judge of the quick(living) and the dead (1 Peter 4:5)

2) Romans 14:9
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living

3) Acts 10:42

And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead .

4) John 5:21
For as the Father raiseth up the dead , and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will

5) Luke 20:38
For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Apparently there is a difference between God and men. God has the authority to call the dead and to raise the dead and the Son does as well.

Prayer to the dead is prohibited apparently:

Isaiah 8:
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead ?

 

[BobRyan]

3) Mechizedek and Son of God are mentioned in Heb 7:2-3, where the common aspects of both persons are illustrated:
Both do not have the earthly father, earthly mother, beginning point, ending point, genealogy,

and therefore Melchzedek is like unto Son of God remaining as continuous Priest.

There, you will find that Son of God doesn't have a Mother!
This is the point to be answered by Theotokos asserters.

Good point

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Armando:
Except for Jesus himself, he communicated with Moses and Eliyah during the transfiguration.

Armando

#1 Elijah was never dead - God took him to heaven directly without dying. (Just as He did with Enoch).

#2. Jude quotes from the "Assumption of Moses" when it recalls the story of Michael and Satan arguing over the body of Moses and the right of Michael to raise him from the dead in that story about the "Assumption of Moses". Since Jude approves of that detail -- I accept it.

Originally posted by Eliyahu:

Prayer to the dead is prohibited apparently:

Isaiah 8:
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead ?

Amen! Exactly as stated in scripture!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[nate]

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
The Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD addressed the doctrine of Christ, specifically the full humanity and divinity of Jesus in response to other views of Christ now considered heretical like monophysitism (Christ only has one nature). The Chalcedonian Creed articulates the statements of this council which is considered a key standard of theological orthodoxy by the RCC, EOC and many protestant groups.

It is also the council and creed where the name Theotokos ("God bearer" or "Mother of God") was formally applied to Mary to reinforce the Christological view of Jesus being both fully God and fully human.

This council upon condemning Nestorian heresy decreed Theotokos.

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Can nobody answer the question ?

Do you call God as Son of Mary ?

God the Son Incarnate ie: Jesus Christ is son of Mary, yes. No problem with that.

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Armando:
the record, first heretic to call Mary Mother of God was Elizabeth during the visitation, didn't she say:

Lk 1,43 "And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"

It will be interesting to see if all the bible believers in this forum can actually call Mary - mother of my Lord.

Armando

Calling Mary as Mother of Lord was already dealt with in the previous thread:

Does God have a Mother?


http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/28/3525/3.html?


FYI, Bible mentioned Mary as
1) Mother of Jesus
2) Mother of Lord
[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]The real question therefore for you to answer in this: is the Lord Jesus God?

2) If you mean Mother of God as Mother of God the Son, and you deny Mary as Mother of God the Father of Mother of God the Holy Spirit, then are you splitting Godhead into 3 pieces ?

Nope. See the doctrine of the Trinity eg: laid out in the Nicene Creed

How would you say, when Jesus said " I and my Father is one (John 10:30) ?

I'd advise you to read the Nicene Creed again for an explanation; this was sorted out nearly 1700 years ago and I really don't see why we should seek to reinvent the wheel here.

3) Mechizedek and Son of God are mentioned in Heb 7:2-3, where the common aspects of both persons are illustrated:
Both do not have the earthly father, earthly mother, beginning point, ending point, genealogy,

and therefore Melchzedek is like unto Son of God remaining as continuous Priest.

There, you will find that Son of God doesn't have a Mother!

Or a father. If Melchi is supposed to be Jesus, then that means Jesus does not have a father, which is of course heretical

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
3) Mechizedek and Son of God are mentioned in Heb 7:2-3, where the common aspects of both persons are illustrated:
Both do not have the earthly father, earthly mother, beginning point, ending point, genealogy,

and therefore Melchzedek is like unto Son of God remaining as continuous Priest.

There, you will find that Son of God doesn't have a Mother!
This is the point to be answered by Theotokos asserters.

Good point </font>[/QUOTE]But it also says that he didn't have a father either - see the last para of my last post to Eliyahu.

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Matt Black:
Or a father. If Melchi is supposed to be Jesus, then that means Jesus does not have a father, which is of course heretical [/QB]

Could you not understand that Heb writer is mentioning the Earthly father ?

If you believe that Jesus has the Earthly father, it is Heretic, unbelieving the Virgin Birth.