Where does that faith that allows us to access and have applied the Grace of the Cross towards us reside? Do all humans have it when born, or is that a Gift from/of God per the scriptures?
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Is Pelagius Teaching On The Rise?
- Thread starter Earth Wind and Fire
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Where does that faith that allows us to access and have applied the Grace of the Cross towards us reside? Do all humans have it when born, or is that a Gift from/of God per the scriptures?
Keep playing chess....:smilewinkgrin: Think they call it Gamesmanship
Hey, if you can show scripture that supports Reformed theology, I will consider it. But all the scripture I have seen in the past 3 years does not convince me at all. I see much scripture pulled out of context, and I see folks reading into scripture what it does not say, like Total Inability in Romans 3. Scripture saying men do not seek God is not the same as scripture saying men are unable to seek God, scripture never says that. If I said my neighbors never go to church, no, not one, would you understand that to mean they are completely UNABLE to go to church? NO, even you would not believe that, but you have allowed teachers to condition your mind to understand scripture like that in Romans 3. So, when it says there are none that seek God, you read into this INABILITY when it is not there.
You do not even realize that your mind has been conditioned by others to assume false doctrine like this. All I am doing is pointing it out to you.
I don't believe scripture like Psa 58:3 proves that we are born sinners. This passage is hyperbole. I am not convinced when I have scripture that directly says God has made man upright, which means righteous. Ecc 7:29.
I do not believe men are imputed Adam's sin when I have scripture that directly says the son shall not bear the iniquity of his father in Eze 18:20. And I certainly do not believe folks when they try to tell me this scripture does not mean what it plainly says.
See, you believe what others tell you, I try only to believe what the scriptures say. If this gets me in trouble with others, so be it. I only care about God's interpretation of scripture, not man's.
I sincerely do hope you search the scriptures. :thumbs:
I am also getting some help from a very astute Reformed Pastor that I just got off the phone with.....thanks for all your prodding. Now I'm going to enter into a very intense study of ....drum roll.....Dutch Reformed Orthodoxy.....which puts Presbyterian Churches to shame.
To think, I came in here 2 yrs ago not knowing IFB from KGB, SBC from STP, Free Will from Free Ring-tones & now Im going headlong into Reformed Theology! Thanks, couldn't have done it without you.:flower::flower: Exits stage door. :laugh:
I sincerely think it is fantastic you are going to do more study. But more important than what any particular denomination has believed, study to see what the scriptures truly say.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Are there none within driving distance?
Im in New Jersey & they are in Kentucky :laugh:
We have, its just that you are refusing to see what the Bible teaches as regarding God/Man and salvation!
Have you read the Baptist reformed theology of AA Strong?
Why do you ask?
That is nonsense and you know it. I will examine any scripture you present to support your views. My big complaint against you is that you NEVER show scripture, you just parrot Reformed doctrine. You are ALL MOUTH and no substance.
How can I be a mouthpiece for reformed theology if I am not reformed, in the strict use of that term?
Trust me Yeshua, I feel Ive been challenged to do just that & so I will. & now I am not going anywhere.
Well, you certainly run your mouth plenty. :laugh:
Hey, since they do not show scripture to support their views, do it for them. I really don't care who presents the scripture, I just want to see the scripture.
But I'm telling you now, I will examine the scripture to see if if says what you are claiming it says.
An example is Romans 3:10-18
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
This passage is quoted by Calvinists over and over again to prove Total Inability. I agree that it says men are very sinful, horrible, and depraved.
But where does it say man is UNABLE to do good? Show me any verse here that says that. I think you will find that not one of these verses says that.
If I said, "None of my neighbors ever goes to church, no, not one" would you understand that to mean that none of my neighbors is ABLE to go to church?
No, no person would believe that. But Reformed/Calvinist have been conditioned by false teaching to interpret Romans 3:10-18 to teach Total Inability when it says no such thing. These verses are simply telling us how terribly sinful men are as a matter of fact. It does not say one word about whether men have the ability to believe the gospel or not.
This is the type of wrong teaching that leads to error. It is reading into scripture what is not being said.
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And Simon peter, agreeing with Isaiah in 1 Peter 2:25, agreed with the prophet that NONE of us sought God, all astryed, !
For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.
...which in context being spoken of Jews.
actually, it applies to ALL persons, for ALL have sinned and fallen short of glory of god, and none seek after Him by their own selves!
...except He has given us everything from birth TO seek Him, meaning that passage is not saying what you imply it is.
All you have to do to convince me of this is just show me with scripture.
We are Justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. Yet with out our believing in Jesus Christ we simply are not justified.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
No where in scripture is it ever said that it is all of grace. No where in scripture is it ever said salvation is all of God. This is an assumed theory that just is not biblical.
MB
So men build a whole doctrine of inability on one verse. This has been argued many times. There is no such thing as inability because the spirit of man lives saved or not. It is the spirit that quickens the body. With out it the body dies. The spirit of man is only considered dead to God and not in reality. Not to mention the verse you've quoted is not about the gospel message;
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
We are all natural and we are all spiritual beings. Sinful man can and does hear the gospel, and Salvation is available to all. Anyone is capable of loving God.
MB
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