Is predestination disturbing?

[johnp.]

Vote early vote often

So the IRA's motto at election time is a thing of God! Wow.

john.

 

[johnp.]

Oh yes. And the scriptures for your last post Wes are what?

john.

 

[David Ekstrom]

Earlier Diane cited Justin Martyr and Clement (of Alexandria). Have you read their writings? These men were Christians but I strongly doubt you would count them as Evangelicals. For example, Justin Martyr taught that Greeks who followed philosophy were "Christians before Christ." So Plato and Aristotle are Christians. Clement said that philosophy was, to the Greeks, a schoolmaster to bring them to Christ, just as the Law was to the Hebrews. If you read Clement's Stromata, I don't think you would find it to be exactly Evangelical. The Fathers are problematic because they are all over the board. The reformers had that problem.
Justin and Clement were reacting to the Greek idea of fate, not the Christian idea of divine sovereignty. Nevertheless, their comments do seem to deny sovereignty. I think this is more than what an Arminian wants to concede. I doubt that either believed in justification by grace through faith.

 

[TexasSky]

Inpeace,

I don't agree that God receives greater glory if you state that He did not offer salvation to all men, and allow men to accept it, or to reject it.

 

[inpeace]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
Inpeace,

I don't agree that God receives greater glory if you state that He did not offer salvation to all men, and allow men to accept it, or to reject it.

"What my Father has given me is greater than all else, and no one can snatch it out of the Father's hand" John 10:29

Glory be to God.

 

[Bob Krajcik]

The true prophet accords God His rightful place. He is owned as the King of kings and Lord of lords, as the One who “worketh all things after the counsel of His own will.” He is acknowledged to be the sovereign Ruler of heaven and earth, at whose disposal are all creatures and all events, for whose pleasure they are created (Revelation 4:11), whose will is invincible and whose power is irresistible. He is declared to be God in fact as well as in name: One whose claims upon us are paramount and incontestable, One who is to be held in the utmost reverence and awe, One who is to be served with fear and rejoiced in with trembling (Psalm 2:11). Such a God the false prophets neither believe in nor preach. On the contrary, they prate about a God who wants to do this and who would like to do that, but cannot because His creatures will not permit it. Having endowed man with a free will, he must neither be compelled nor coerced, and while Deity is filled with amiable intentions He is unable to carry them out. Man is the architect of his fortunes and the decider of his own destiny, and God a mere Spectator.
A. W. Pink, The Sermon On The Mount

 

[OldRegular]

If by predestination you mean the Doctrine of Election it is most comforting. Furthermore, the Doctrine of Election magnifies the Grace of God for without His Electing Grace no one would be saved.

 

[yeshua4me2]

the problem is with the term "free will", we are slaves to our own depraved hearts. Spurgeon said "if God had painted a yellow stripe down the back of everyone who would believe, then i would spend my days lifting up shirts, but because he didn't i preach Whosoever Will. See the problem poeple have with pre-destination is they think it removes their choice, but that is not so....let me show you how you can pre-destine someone and have them choose the predestined path. (remember this example is a finite example God is infinite, therefore he can do the same sorta thing on a much grander scale. First you pick the person to be predestined, write a letter to that person explaining the predestined act to be performed (for this example i will use the act of catching a baseball). so i would write down so and so will catch a baseball on such a date. then seal the letter in an envelope and seal it, hold on to it. then simply (of course plan to be with the person predestined on that date) walk up to the person say hello, and without saying anything to him show him the ball make a catching motion and toss him/her the ball in such a way they are ensured to catch it. then hand them the letter. you see the person actually had no choice but to do what you wanted even though the person went along willingly. you knew what was comming and actually you are responsible for everything, the person would not have even caught the ball if it wern't for you, you were in control the whole time (even though the other person chose "freely" to catch the ball......i know this is very simplistic but the principle remains.....Pre-destination with choice....there is no desparagy between choosing Christ and Being Pre-destined unto Salvation.

thank you for reading this i prayed for several years for understanding on this issue, i hope this show that you both choose christ and are predestined.... if my example is not clear enough please e-mail me.