Is repentance needed for salvation?

[AustinC]

But many 'Christians' think of themselves as 'sheep' and say they are 'saved', even some who 'talk the talk' but refuse to 'walk the walk', because they think following Gods Commandments are just a 'bunny trail'...

These seem to be 5 virgins (Christians) who did not prepare...

Does it matter what "many Christians" think?
This is the point Jesus makes in John 10 when he tells us that "all that the Father has given him" will be saved and not lost.
The emphasis is upon the Sovereign will of God being executed with authority and finality, not on human beings calling their own shots and determining their destiny by their own merit.

 

[Alan Gross]

Repentance is a result of God graciously saving.
"For by grace you are saved."
Twice, God repeats this truth.
Nowhere does God say "By repentance you are saved." Yet, twice, in succession, God says "By grace you are saved."

Repentance and Faith are said to be, 'Twin Doctrines'.

God Flicks the Switch in the dead soul, for them to Repent Toward what they had believed, previously, and now, agree with God, and to Believe in The Message of Jesus, by Faith.

That is the 'Light' that 'comes on', once God Saves (Flicks the Switch).

( prior to Repentance and Faith, is The Preaching of the Gospel and Holy Spirit Wrought and Enabled CONVICTION, of what it is that the soul is REPENTING OF, i.e., their personal guilt before The trice-Holy God and personal sin.)

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I would stand up and shout "AMEN! Preach it brother." ... except the actual question that I asked was "Is there a difference between repenting and being saved?" and I am not sure that you actually answered what I asked you.

So I agree with everything that you said (although I would have preferred a few scripture verses thrown in to support your claims rather than vague references), but "Repentance is essential to salvation." sounds like a "YES" to the question "Is there a difference between repenting and being saved?".

Which brings us back to the original claim made by someone other than me that "God commands everyone to be saved". You have demonstrated that God commands everyone to REPENT and you have implied that "repentance" is different from "salvation". So the question remains: "WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE that teaches us that God commands everyone to be saved?" That is all that I have requested, biblical support for a theological claim.

Vague references?

Jesus said that people who do not repent will perish:

Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish:

Heaven rejoices over sinners that repent:

Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

God grants lost people repentance unto life.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

In context, Acts 11:18 is clearly speaking of God's granting people repentance to eternal life.

There is no salvation without repentance and those who genuinely repent will be saved.

 

[atpollard]

Vague references?

Why do you repeat it as a question?
None of those Verses were quoted in your previous post, were they?
None of those Chapters and Verses were referenced in your previous post, were they?

Then the general phrases that you presented in your previous post about "people who do not repent will perish" and "Heaven rejoices over sinners that repent" and "grants lost people repentance" WERE vague references rather than either exact quotes or the suggested Chapter and Verse listing.

I note that while taking exception at my use of the phrase "vague references", you have STILL not answered the original question that drew me into this topic ...

"WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE that teaches us that God commands everyone to be saved?"
That is all that I have requested, biblical support for a theological claim made by another.

 

[atpollard]

Sure its hebrew language. MITZVAH God wants his desire known? HE GIVES A COMMAND.

Let's make this easy. Just identify which Mitzvot God commands everyone to be saved in. You can list it by number from the list at this site or from the Scripture Verse ... whichever you prefer.

List of 613 MITZVOT

 

[utilyan]

You are still offering me a fistful of bellybutton lint rather than any Scripture, and I still don't want to swallow bellybutton lint.

Sticking with my line of reasoning ... if God said it in the Holy Bible then it might be true (people can still misunderstand scripture), and if God doesn't say it in the Holy Bible then it is not worth wasting time considering.

COMMAND = WANTS DESIRE. When you give your children a rule or command just try giving them your personal TIDBIT that what you COMMAND is not what you want.

Lets use your absurd reasoning. --->God doesn't say it in the Holy Bible then it is not worth wasting time considering

Show were GOD says it has to be in the bible to be worth considering. Your own made up rule is not worth time considering.

We can run this dumb line of reasoning with everything. This is why your the only one bothering to speak up, because the other Calvinist are probably contemplating just how silly the idea that God's command does not state his desire.


God can show up in person and COMMAND YOU to follow him, and YOU WON'T MOVE because You are arguing what he commands does not mean its his want.

 

[utilyan]

Let's make this easy. Just identify which Mitzvot God commands everyone to be saved in. You can list it by number from the list at this site or from the Scripture Verse ... whichever you prefer.

List of 613 MITZVOT

THE LAW is the LAW. Sure thing. That doesn't mean EVERY command God gives is "JEWISH LAW".

Jesus Commands not eat his fish, that doesn't mean that command must be found in Jewish law.

Your falling back to childish schoolyard vocabulary games. The issue is real simple If God COMMANDS something it means he wants it done.

If God commands everyone to sit down it means he wants everyone to sit down, I can guarantee you only a IDIOT would think God does not want them to sit after he commands it.

 

[atpollard]

COMMAND = WANTS DESIRE. When you give your children a rule or command just try giving them your personal TIDBIT that what you COMMAND is not what you want.

Lets use your absurd reasoning. --->God doesn't say it in the Holy Bible then it is not worth wasting time considering

Show were GOD says it has to be in the bible to be worth considering. Your own made up rule is not worth time considering.

We can run this dumb line of reasoning with everything. This is why your the only one bothering to speak up, because the other Calvinist are probably contemplating just how silly the idea that God's command does not state his desire.


God can show up in person and COMMAND YOU to follow him, and YOU WON'T MOVE because You are arguing what he commands does not mean its his want.

THE LAW is the LAW. Sure thing. That doesn't mean EVERY command God gives is "JEWISH LAW".

Jesus Commands not eat his fish, that doesn't mean that command must be found in Jewish law.

Your falling back to childish schoolyard vocabulary games. The issue is real simple If God COMMANDS something it means he wants it done.

If God commands everyone to sit down it means he wants everyone to sit down, I can guarantee you only a IDIOT would think God does not want them to sit after he commands it.

Still no verse that supports your claim that God commands every person to be saved. However I will patiently wait for you to show me where God made this command.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Why do you repeat it as a question?
None of those Verses were quoted in your previous post, were they?
None of those Chapters and Verses were referenced in your previous post, were they?

Then the general phrases that you presented in your previous post about "people who do not repent will perish" and "Heaven rejoices over sinners that repent" and "grants lost people repentance" WERE vague references rather than either exact quotes or the suggested Chapter and Verse listing.

I note that while taking exception at my use of the phrase "vague references", you have STILL not answered the original question that drew me into this topic ...

"WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE that teaches us that God commands everyone to be saved?"
That is all that I have requested, biblical support for a theological claim made by another.

I already gave you one passage and you chose to dismiss that passage. I will respond to your handling of that passage later, after I have had some time to look carefully at it again.

Regardless, God commands all men everywhere to repent. He also commands all people to believe the gospel. Those who do so, will be saved.

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Both verbs that I have highlighted here are commands given by Jesus who was (and is) incarnate Deity. Jesus commanded multitudes of lost people to do this and multitudes rejected His commands. That does not change the fact that He commanded them to do so.

When He comes again, He will punish all human beings who have not obeyed the gospel:

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

The fact that those who will perish eternally will be punished eternally by God for their not obeying the gospel shows that they had been commanded by God to do so.

More fundamentally, what exactly are you trying to assert or establish by your wanting a passage that God commands all people to be saved?

 

[atpollard]

More fundamentally, what exactly are you trying to assert or establish by your wanting a passage that God commands all people to be saved?

[Romans 9:15-24 NASB] 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16 So then it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And [He did so] to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 [even] us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.​

In light of scriptures like the above, I just want a verse that actually SAYS that God commands every person without exception to be saved, before I blindly accept a claim on a website that God has made such a command as a FACT.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

[Romans 9:15-24 NASB] 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16 So then it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And [He did so] to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 [even] us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.​

In light of scriptures like the above, I just want a verse that actually SAYS that God commands every person without exception to be saved, before I blindly accept a claim on a website that God has made such a command as a FACT.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[atpollard]

I already gave you one passage and you chose to dismiss that passage. I will respond to your handling of that passage later, after I have had some time to look carefully at it again.

I do not believe that I dismissed any passage, but point it out and I will address it.

You offered three passages. The first passage, I presented the context and explained that I saw two sets of people being described, one to whom the command was given and would obey and another to which hated God and would simply be put to shame. We disagree on the meaning of that passage.

The second verse came from Acts, and God commanded everyone to “repent” rather than “be saved”, so I requested clarification on whether there was a difference between “repentance” and “salvation”. Your response tap danced around the question, but appeared to indicate that there was a difference. So that verse requires further discussion before it can prove that a command to repent is a command to be saved.

The third verse came from Deuteronomy and I did avoid directly addressing it because a command in the LAW to obey all of the commands in the LAW applies to all 613 Mitzvah. So before we can discuss whether Deuteronomy commands me to be saved, you must explain why it does not command me to not shave or wear blended fabrics or eat bacon. Once we determine how to parse the LAW into “still in effect” vs “expired”, then we can see if there is a command in the Law to be saved. (I really did not want to get into arguing about the Law).

 

[Salty]

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[atpollard]

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Ok, that’s close enough to an exact match that I will not split semantic hairs over what God desires vs what God commands.

Thank you for providing scripture to support your claim.
(I would just have you note that it is easy for people to say things about what God wants, but often much harder to actually prove that God said what we claim he said.)

 

[Salty]

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