Is repentance needed for salvation?

[utilyan]

Well at least you are posting Scripture, now.


You are aware that this verse is speaking of how people love God and not how God loves people. Lost sinners do not love God (John 3:18-19) and (Romans 1:18-32) and (Romans 3:9-20) talk about it.



This is not a command. A command looks like this: [Leviticus 19:2 NKJV] 2 "Speak to all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say to them: 'You shall be holy, for I the LORD your God [am] holy.

The problem is that you made the following statements ...




... and in response to your bold statements, all I requested was some scripture to support two details of your claims.



Now could you please address the statements you made and the scripture supporting your statements that I requested?

".. and in response to your bold statements, all I requested was some scripture to support two details of your claims."

Sure its hebrew language. MITZVAH God wants his desire known? HE GIVES A COMMAND.

With your line of reasoning I could declare......... GOD doesn't want or desire anything at all.

Its like declaring eating is not consuming the food.



ITs amazing when someone brings up God is love. Your side will INSIST GOD WANTS JUSTICE while forgetting he wants Justice TODAY right now from you!

 

[atpollard]

".. and in response to your bold statements, all I requested was some scripture to support two details of your claims."

Sure its hebrew language. MITZVAH God wants his desire known? HE GIVES A COMMAND.

With your line of reasoning I could declare......... GOD doesn't want or desire anything at all.

Its like declaring eating is not consuming the food.

ITs amazing when someone brings up God is love. Your side will INSIST GOD WANTS JUSTICE while forgetting he wants Justice TODAY right now from you!

You STILL have not provided what I requested:

• Please provide the verse that tells us “the point of a command. [is] TO TELL US WHAT HE WANTS” so I will have more than “because you say so” to base that FACT on.

• Please provide the scripture where God commands everyone (without exception) to “be saved”.

I still see NO SCRIPTURE VERSES in your post, so all you have provided is more "opinions".
I know that I am probably coming across as a jerk. Sorry, that is really not my intent. The fact is that I take this "SOLA SCRIPTURA" stuff as serious as a heart attack. In life, a lot of people have said a lot of things. Most of it turned out to be untrue (bu11sh:t), but God's word never blew smoke up ... [achem].
So I am willing to listen to what people can support with scripture and all other opinions are just belly-button lint.
I don't want to swallow anybody's belly-button lint.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You STILL have not provided what I requested:

• Please provide the verse that tells us “the point of a command. [is] TO TELL US WHAT HE WANTS” so I will have more than “because you say so” to base that FACT on.

• Please provide the scripture where God commands everyone (without exception) to “be saved”.

Here are two passages to consider concerning what God commands of everyone:

Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You STILL have not provided what I requested:

• Please provide the verse that tells us “the point of a command. [is] TO TELL US WHAT HE WANTS” so I will have more than “because you say so” to base that FACT on.

This passage directly expresses that God desires, wants, and longs for comprehensive obedience to His commandments always from people:

Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

 

[atpollard]

Here are two passages to consider concerning what God commands of everyone:

Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

In context ...

[Isaiah 45:20-25 NASB]
20 "Gather yourselves and come; Draw near together, you fugitives of the nations; They have no knowledge, Who carry about their wooden idol And pray to a god who cannot save. 21 "Declare and set forth [your case;] Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me. 22 "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. 23 "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear [allegiance.] 24 "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame. 25 "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory."​

I see a dichotomy between two peoples within this text. There is one people that trusts in God and will have their trust proven worthwhile, and a second people that oppose God and will ultimately be put to shame for their anger at God and their opposition.

The claim by some was that God desires to save all and commands all to be saved. I have requested scripture that makes such a claim.

Do you believe that Isaiah 45 makes such a claim?

 

[atpollard]

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

My original request was:

• Please provide the scripture where God commands everyone (without exception) to “be saved”.

You have graciously offered Acts 17:30 in response.
My question to you is this ...

Is there a difference between repenting and being saved?

What exactly is it that God commands of all men everywhere in Acts 17?

 

[atpollard]

This passage directly expresses that God desires, wants, and longs for comprehensive obedience to His commandments always from people:

Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Before I go and look up this specific verse in Deuteronomy, would you please explain why I should accept THIS VERSE as God’s command to me, but I can wear blended fabrics and shave without being stoned to death? What yardstick measures which parts of a covenant given to the children of Jacob that escaped from Egypt are applicable to this son of Norse, Welsh and Roman pagans (and which are not)?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

My original request was:

• Please provide the scripture where God commands everyone (without exception) to “be saved”.

You have graciously offered Acts 17:30 in response.
My question to you is this ...

Is there a difference between repenting and being saved?

What exactly is it that God commands of all men everywhere in Acts 17?

What God commands of all men everywhere is exactly what John the Baptist, Jesus, and all the apostles preached to everyone--they must repent and believe the gospel.

Jesus said that people who do not repent will perish. Heaven rejoices over sinners that repent. Repentance is essential to salvation.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

In context ...

[Isaiah 45:20-25 NASB]
20 "Gather yourselves and come; Draw near together, you fugitives of the nations; They have no knowledge, Who carry about their wooden idol And pray to a god who cannot save. 21 "Declare and set forth [your case;] Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me. 22 "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. 23 "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear [allegiance.] 24 "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame. 25 "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory."​

I see a dichotomy between two peoples within this text. There is one people that trusts in God and will have their trust proven worthwhile, and a second people that oppose God and will ultimately be put to shame for their anger at God and their opposition.

The claim by some was that God desires to save all and commands all to be saved. I have requested scripture that makes such a claim.

Do you believe that Isaiah 45 makes such a claim?

There isn't anything in Isaiah 45 that shows that "all the ends of the earth" only applies to some people. The command is to all people everywhere that they must turn to God (repent) and be saved.

The rest of the Bible shows that many resist God and will not be saved. That does not change what He has commanded.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Before I go and look up this specific verse in Deuteronomy, would you please explain why I should accept THIS VERSE as God’s command to me, but I can wear blended fabrics and shave without being stoned to death? What yardstick measures which parts of a covenant given to the children of Jacob that escaped from Egypt are applicable to this son of Norse, Welsh and Roman pagans (and which are not)?

The entire Bible teaches that God demands that all people everywhere fear Him and obey whatever He commands them to do.

What Deut. 5:29 reveals about what God desires is not an isolated statement that is uncorroborated by any other Scripture. For example,

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Note that both passages have the same emphasis of fearing God and keeping His commandments.

 

[utilyan]

Before I go and look up this specific verse in Deuteronomy, would you please explain why I should accept THIS VERSE as God’s command to me, but I can wear blended fabrics and shave without being stoned to death? What yardstick measures which parts of a covenant given to the children of Jacob that escaped from Egypt are applicable to this son of Norse, Welsh and Roman pagans (and which are not)?

Sticking with your line of reasoning. I can claim God doesn't want or desire anything at all. God does not want justice, does not want punishment, ect.

The very point in issuing a command is to make one's will, want and desire known. If God showed up in person and commanded all to be quiet looking on you I would have to face palm because you are the only one who is not convinced that being quiet would be what God wants from you.

The fact that God's want and desire after commanding you to your face does not register is astonishing.

Those stop signs that command you to stop..........You must think they don't really want you to stop am I right?

 

[atpollard]

What God commands of all men everywhere is exactly what John the Baptist, Jesus, and all the apostles preached to everyone--they must repent and believe the gospel.

Jesus said that people who do not repent will perish. Heaven rejoices over sinners that repent. Repentance is essential to salvation.

I would stand up and shout "AMEN! Preach it brother." ... except the actual question that I asked was "Is there a difference between repenting and being saved?" and I am not sure that you actually answered what I asked you.

So I agree with everything that you said (although I would have preferred a few scripture verses thrown in to support your claims rather than vague references), but "Repentance is essential to salvation." sounds like a "YES" to the question "Is there a difference between repenting and being saved?".

Which brings us back to the original claim made by someone other than me that "God commands everyone to be saved". You have demonstrated that God commands everyone to REPENT and you have implied that "repentance" is different from "salvation". So the question remains: "WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE that teaches us that God commands everyone to be saved?" That is all that I have requested, biblical support for a theological claim.

 

[atpollard]

There isn't anything in Isaiah 45 that shows that "all the ends of the earth" only applies to some people. The command is to all people everywhere that they must turn to God (repent) and be saved.

The rest of the Bible shows that many resist God and will not be saved. That does not change what He has commanded.

Thank you for your interpretation, but I do not believe that God is commanding them to be saved.

20 "Gather yourselves and come; Draw near together, you fugitives of the nations; They have no knowledge, Who carry about their wooden idol And pray to a god who cannot save. 21 "Declare and set forth [your case;] Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me. 22 "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. - [Isaiah 45:20-22 NASB]​

I believe that the point that God is making is that all of the people from the ends of the earth are trying to draw water from wells that are dry. There are no 'gods' to be had to save them except God, so if they want to find salvation then there is only ONE GOD they can come to to obtain it.

25 "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory." - [Isaiah 45:25 NASB]​

Verse 25 seems to reinforce this by emphasizing that "the offspring of Israel" will be justified, rather than "the ends of the earth" or "all men" will be justified. Only God can save, and only those chosen by God are saved.

For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. - [Romans 9:15-16 NASB]​

 

[Hobie]

Do you not see the connection to Matthew 25 in Revelation 20?

If you mean that 5 virgins (Christians) will be ready while 5 (like a good number of Christians) will think they are ready, yet not truly prepare and end up not being in the book of life, I can see that.

 

[atpollard]

Note that both passages have the same emphasis of fearing God and keeping His commandments.

I am going to let this drop because I really don't want to pursue a bunny trail into the Law.

Let's just stick with "Where is the COMMANDMENT to get saved?" and avoid the discussion on God's Command not to wear blended fabrics.

 

[atpollard]

You STILL have not provided what I requested:

• Please provide the verse that tells us “the point of a command. [is] TO TELL US WHAT HE WANTS” so I will have more than “because you say so” to base that FACT on.

• Please provide the scripture where God commands everyone (without exception) to “be saved”.

I still see NO SCRIPTURE VERSES in your post, so all you have provided is more "opinions".
I know that I am probably coming across as a jerk. Sorry, that is really not my intent. The fact is that I take this "SOLA SCRIPTURA" stuff as serious as a heart attack. In life, a lot of people have said a lot of things. Most of it turned out to be untrue (bu11sh:t), but God's word never blew smoke up ... [achem].
So I am willing to listen to what people can support with scripture and all other opinions are just belly-button lint.
I don't want to swallow anybody's belly-button lint.

Sticking with your line of reasoning. I can claim God doesn't want or desire anything at all. God does not want justice, does not want punishment, ect.

The very point in issuing a command is to make one's will, want and desire known. If God showed up in person and commanded all to be quiet looking on you I would have to face palm because you are the only one who is not convinced that being quiet would be what God wants from you.

The fact that God's want and desire after commanding you to your face does not register is astonishing.

Those stop signs that command you to stop..........You must think they don't really want you to stop am I right?

You are still offering me a fistful of bellybutton lint rather than any Scripture, and I still don't want to swallow bellybutton lint.

Sticking with my line of reasoning ... if God said it in the Holy Bible then it might be true (people can still misunderstand scripture), and if God doesn't say it in the Holy Bible then it is not worth wasting time considering.

 

[AustinC]

If you mean that 5 virgins (Christians) will be ready while 5 (like a good number of Christians) will think they are ready, yet not truly prepare and end up not being in the book of life, I can see that.

I mean...the separation of the sheep and the goats by God. One to their inheritance, the other to their destruction.

 

[AustinC]

Looking at Isaiah 45:20-22, I want to point out the particular command of God to the exiles, not to the pagans. God is calling for the exiles to repent and thus be blessed (saved here is not eternal salvation, but spiritual blessing anywhere that the child of God lives.)
We, the particular people of God, are exiles. We are called to repentance. The pagans will continue to worship their other Gods.

20 "Gather yourselves and come; Draw near together, you fugitives of the nations; They have no knowledge, Who carry about their wooden idol And pray to a god who cannot save. 21 "Declare and set forth [your case;] Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me. 22 "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. - [Isaiah 45:20-22 NASB]

Compare Isaiah 45 with 1 Peter 2:10-12. Notice the particular call to holiness.

Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.

 

[Hobie]

I mean...the separation of the sheep and the goats by God. One to their inheritance, the other to their destruction.

But many 'Christians' think of themselves as 'sheep' and say they are 'saved', even some who 'talk the talk' but refuse to 'walk the walk', because they think following Gods Commandments are just a 'bunny trail'...

These seem to be 5 virgins (Christians) who did not prepare...

 

[atpollard]

they think following Gods Commandments are just a 'bunny trail'...

Respectfully, we think ARGUING about God's commandments is a "bunny trail".

The LAW has 613 commands.
Jesus left us with two.
I obey the two (as best as I can, repent when I fail, and trust Jesus for the difference), and do not worry about the other 611 specified in the Law.

On the other hand, if you feel that obeying each and every command of God is important, then knock yourself out:

List of 613 Mitzvot