Is repentance needed for salvation?

[AustinC]

Guys of course Jesus was just joking when he went around telling people to repent cause he knew no one can repent unless he sticks his hand up your back and works you like a puppet.

Utilyan, if you went up to a group of Isis warriors and told them to repent, would they naturally agree, drop their weapons and bow the knee to Jesus Christ as the only way?

Don't fool yourself into think you or I were any better or any less rebellious toward God.

The fact that you think God choosing to save you was an act of God making you his puppet is utterly blasphemous. Yet, you have no remorse.

 

[utilyan]

Utilyan, if you went up to a group of Isis warriors and told them to repent, would they naturally agree, drop their weapons and bow the knee to Jesus Christ as the only way?

Don't fool yourself into think you or I were any better or any less rebellious toward God.

The fact that you think God choosing to save you was an act of God making you his puppet is utterly blasphemous. Yet, you have no remorse.

"Utilyan, if you went up to a group of Isis warriors and told them to repent, would they naturally agree, drop their weapons and bow the knee to Jesus Christ as the only way?"

Yes that the idea. Pagans have done worst to Christians and that is exactly what we declared that pagans should repent.

Thats exactly why plenty of Calvinist come to your conclusion no need for prayer or evangelization

We walk right on up to Isis warriors tell them to repent.

Acts 17
30“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,


"The fact that you think God choosing to save you was an act of God making you his puppet is utterly blasphemous. Yet, you have no remorse."

If I thought God made me his puppet i'd be thrilled and happy. What are you talking about?

I think you should have remorse for presuming God can only behave in the boundaries you dictate.

I think God can beat you at a game of checkers. You think God can only win if he moves the pieces for you.

I believe God CAN implement a system that works exactly like Calvinism. I just think he went with something more impressive and better.

Can you however accept that if God wanted to run a system that is not Calvinist, COULD HE DO IT?

"utterly blasphemous"
If anyone asked Does God want me to obey him? Does God want me to sin? You get clear cut answers Yes he wants obedience and NO he does not want anyone to sin. The blasphemy comes from folks who shrug and say God does want disobedience and sin.

 

[AustinC]

"Utilyan, if you went up to a group of Isis warriors and told them to repent, would they naturally agree, drop their weapons and bow the knee to Jesus Christ as the only way?"

Yes that the idea. Pagans have done worst to Christians and that is exactly what we declared that pagans should repent.

Thats exactly why plenty of Calvinist come to your conclusion no need for prayer or evangelization

We walk right on up to Isis warriors tell them to repent.

Acts 17
30“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,


"The fact that you think God choosing to save you was an act of God making you his puppet is utterly blasphemous. Yet, you have no remorse."

If I thought God made me his puppet i'd be thrilled and happy. What are you talking about?

I think you should have remorse for presuming God can only behave in the boundaries you dictate.

I think God can beat you at a game of checkers. You think God can only win if he moves the pieces for you.

I believe God CAN implement a system that works exactly like Calvinism. I just think he went with something more impressive and better.

Can you however accept that if God wanted to run a system that is not Calvinist, COULD HE DO IT?

"utterly blasphemous"
If anyone asked Does God want me to obey him? Does God want me to sin? You get clear cut answers Yes he wants obedience and NO he does not want anyone to sin. The blasphemy comes from folks who shrug and say God does want disobedience and sin.

All that bluster and you never actually answered my question. Why is that? Is it because you know that rebels don't bend the knee when they think they are in power?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Some people claim that repentance has no place in salvation, that you can believe in Jesus as “Savior” but never repent of your sin. That you can be saved even if you continue in chained to sin and iniquity just as it was before you became a Christian, that no change is needed. So what does Christ say:

Matthew 4:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke 5:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Jesus even repeated it for emphasis in describing to the people:
Luke 13:1-6 King James Version (KJV)
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Jesus told his disciples to proclaim “repentance and remission of sins” in his name to all the nations (Luke 24:47).
When the apostles preached in Acts, they called people to repent of their sins in order to be forgiven:

Acts 2:38 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts 5:30-31 King James Version (KJV)
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

2 Corinthians 7:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Paul also calls for repentance and makes it clear that those whose lives are characterized by sin will not "inherit the kingdom of God” :

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Scripture is clear, repentance is absolutely necessary in order to be saved. Only those truly repent and turn to Christ and His righteousness in their lives, and away from their sin, will be saved on the last day.

A lot of these questions come up from a comfortable Western stand point . We imagine that a person recieves Jesus and will live a long life ,helping out in the church , being faithful ,cleaning the toilets , greeting people at the door , tithing and is always there at prayer meetings ,is faithful and works hard till a ripe old age . This is the western idea of Christianity. We see in the bible something different. You could recieve Jesus on Monday and be slaughtered on Tuesday. For some this is the reality across the world . So this idea of loss of salvation is ridiculous when you think about it in light of perfection and suffering. A Person who understands the Gospel will as part of that understanding, realise he is a sinner . And that Jesus died for him ect . In order to believe the Gospel one must accept the truth about Jesus dying for sin according to the scriptures. ( 1 cor 15 .1-4 ) Lordship salvation adds to this legalistically and creates powerless Christians who focus on themselves instead of others to share the good news .

 

[utilyan]

All that bluster and you never actually answered my question. Why is that? Is it because you know that rebels don't bend the knee when they think they are in power?

I did answer your question. the very first line. It clearly says YES. Maybe you need reading comprehension sanctification/regeneration.

 

[AustinC]

I did answer your question. the very first line. It clearly says YES. Maybe you need reading comprehension sanctification/regeneration.

I comprehend your incapacity to accept God's supremacy.

 

[utilyan]

I comprehend your incapacity to accept God's supremacy.

I did accept it. You don't comprehend that he must actually offer it.

 

[AustinC]

I did accept it. You don't comprehend that he must actually offer it.

God has to offer his supremacy to you before God is supreme Lord?

 

[utilyan]

God has to offer his supremacy to you before God is supreme Lord?

YOU can't rebel unless you are doing something GOD doesn't want you to do. Does God want and desire rebellion?

 

[AustinC]

YOU can't rebel unless you are doing something GOD doesn't want you to do. Does God want and desire rebellion?

God gave Adam that capacity. In Adam we all fell under the curse of sin.
God has ordained our rebellion so that He might, by His Sovereign will, redeem whom He chooses.

If God had not ordained Adam's capacity (and thereby our capacity) to rebel, Adam would never have had opportunity to rebel.

utilyan, do you know the mind of God? Please inform us as to why God ordained that Adam have the capacity to rebel.

Did Adam have the capacity to also reconcile with God, apart from God choosing to reconcile with Adam? Did Adam have the force of free-will to move God to act?

 

[utilyan]

God gave Adam that capacity. In Adam we all fell under the curse of sin.
God has ordained our rebellion so that He might, by His Sovereign will, redeem whom He chooses.

If God had not ordained Adam's capacity (and thereby our capacity) to rebel, Adam would never have had opportunity to rebel.

utilyan, do you know the mind of God? Please inform us as to why God ordained that Adam have the capacity to rebel.

Did Adam have the capacity to also reconcile with God, apart from God choosing to reconcile with Adam? Did Adam have the force of free-will to move God to act?

You are not answering the question. Maybe you can get someone else to read it for you.

Does God want and desire rebellion?

Christians will tell you NO. Satan and minions will throw doubt saying Did god really say not to do that? He doesn't really want you to obey....

 

[AustinC]

You are not answering the question. Maybe you can get someone else to read it for you.

Does God want and desire rebellion?

Christians will tell you NO. Satan and minions will throw doubt saying Did god really say not to do that? He doesn't really want you to obey....

I answered your loaded question. You don't like how I answered. Your dislike doesn't bother me.

 

[utilyan]

I answered your loaded question. You don't like how I answered. Your dislike doesn't bother me.

Nope. I asked Does God want and desire rebellion?

I love the fact you won't say NO. Shows how silly Calvinism is.

If God commands you not to sin does that mean he wants you not to sin?

 

[AustinC]

Nope. I asked Does God want and desire rebellion?

I love the fact you won't say NO. Shows how silly Calvinism is.

If God commands you not to sin does that mean he wants you not to sin?

God demands holiness, not rebellion.
God patiently allows rebellion and even uses rebellion for his own purposes.

Habakkuk 1:5-11 “Look among the nations, and see; wonder and be astounded. For I am doing a work in your days that you would not believe if told. For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, who march through the breadth of the earth, to seize dwellings not their own. They are dreaded and fearsome; their justice and dignity go forth from themselves. Their horses are swifter than leopards, more fierce than the evening wolves; their horsemen press proudly on. Their horsemen come from afar; they fly like an eagle swift to devour. They all come for violence, all their faces forward. They gather captives like sand. At kings they scoff, and at rulers they laugh. They laugh at every fortress, for they pile up earth and take it. Then they sweep by like the wind and go on, guilty men, whose own might is their god!”

Does this destroy the image of God you have created, utilyan?

 

[utilyan]

God demands holiness, not rebellion.
God patiently allows rebellion and even uses rebellion for his own purposes.

Habakkuk 1:5-11 “Look among the nations, and see; wonder and be astounded. For I am doing a work in your days that you would not believe if told. For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, who march through the breadth of the earth, to seize dwellings not their own. They are dreaded and fearsome; their justice and dignity go forth from themselves. Their horses are swifter than leopards, more fierce than the evening wolves; their horsemen press proudly on. Their horsemen come from afar; they fly like an eagle swift to devour. They all come for violence, all their faces forward. They gather captives like sand. At kings they scoff, and at rulers they laugh. They laugh at every fortress, for they pile up earth and take it. Then they sweep by like the wind and go on, guilty men, whose own might is their god!”

Does this destroy the image of God you have created, utilyan?

"God demands holiness, not rebellion."

The words demand and command are quite meaningless joke to Calvinists we have to dig deeper.

Does that mean He wants and desires all to be holy?

I would say Yes. I don't think you could say "yes".

 

[AustinC]

"God demands holiness, not rebellion."

The words demand and command are quite meaningless joke to Calvinists we have to dig deeper.

Does that mean He wants and desires all to be holy?

I would say Yes. I don't think you could say "yes".

Desires and ordains are two different things. If God ordained holiness, we would be holy and not sin. But God, in His providence, has not ordained holiness, but instead has ordained that sin would abound and He would redeem some sinners, but not all. Do you think scripture does not teach this? Have I and others not provided enough scripture, in context, for you to grasp this truth? What is the obstacle to your faith in this area?

 

[utilyan]

Desires and ordains are two different things. If God ordained holiness, we would be holy and not sin. But God, in His providence, has not ordained holiness, but instead has ordained that sin would abound and He would redeem some sinners, but not all. Do you think scripture does not teach this? Have I and others not provided enough scripture, in context, for you to grasp this truth? What is the obstacle to your faith in this area?

"Desires and ordains are two different things. "

I am not stupid. When I mean desire I'm talking about desire and wants.

"Have I and others not provided enough scripture, in context, for you to grasp this truth?"

God commands that a person not sin. Do you agree only an idiot would conclude that God would want them to sin?


Does God want or desire for holiness for all, not rebellion?

 

[AustinC]

"Desires and ordains are two different things. "

I am not stupid. When I mean desire I'm talking about desire and wants.

"Have I and others not provided enough scripture, in context, for you to grasp this truth?"

God commands that a person not sin. Do you agree only an idiot would conclude that God would want them to sin?


Does God want or desire for holiness for all, not rebellion?

Does God not get whatever He wants? Can humans deny God by the force of their own will so that God's will is defeated by man's will?

Therefore, by God's will, humans are given over to their passions at this present season. He chooses whom He will make holy and whom He will give over to destruction.

Romans 1:18-32 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

 

[utilyan]

Does God not get whatever He wants? Can humans deny God by the force of their own will so that God's will is defeated by man's will?

Therefore, by God's will, humans are given over to their passions at this present season. He chooses whom He will make holy and whom He will give over to destruction.

Romans 1:18-32 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

"Does God not get whatever He wants? Can humans deny God by the force of their own will so that God's will is defeated by man's will?"

God will get what he wants....HOW he wants it, not your way, not my way, the way he wants it.

If he wants it without force he can get it without force.

"He chooses whom He will make holy and whom He will give over to destruction."
We agree here only difference is I believe HOW he does it is his option. The method he chooses is his. If he decides well if sunlight touches anyone today they will be saved.....or if anyone feels wind from the south they will be damned.


God does not want you to SIN ever again. Show me in scripture where it says God wants and desires sin and disobedience.

Does God want you to sin yes or no? SATAN says yes, God wants you to sin, do you agree with satan?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

There is no salvation without forgiveness.

There is no forgiveness without repentance.

Repentance is necessary for salvation.