Is repentance needed for salvation?

[Sai]

To Mailman.

You turned to Greek translation in order to alter the meaning of these words, and according to you Greek translation these words means just "change of mind" "reconsider" and "think differently."
HE IS RIGHT

Such "repentance" and "confession" without their definitions do not exist. How possibly you can repent before the Lord without regret? How you can apologies to anyone without feeling sorry?
EVEN REGRET AS TINY AS A MUSTARD SEED

"Change of mind?" in what Mailman?
FOR THE JEWS: ON THE ACCUSATION OF DEMONIC CONTROL OF YESHUA IN MATTHEW 12 BTW ALSO BAPTISM WAS REQUIRED CONCERNING THAT.

FOR THE GENTILES: THE IDOLA ARE NOT GODS AND THAT JESUS IS THE ONE TRUE GOD.

And I tell even more, you never truly repented before the Lord according to that you wrote. Because you cannot apologies to the Lord by saying, "I change my mind sir!" or "I reconsider." or "I think differently"

Say this "repentance" of yours in your church, I would like to see reaction of people who will hear such "confession."

Repentance becomes a false addition to the gospel unless properly defined as a synonym with faith.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[mailmandan]

Repentance becomes a false addition to the gospel unless properly defined as a synonym with faith.

Joy unspeakable full of glory

Alex2165 simply refuses to accept the truth about repentance and sadly, I've seen numerous people turn repentance into a false addition to the gospel. The church of Christ for example basically understands faith as "mental assent" belief "conjoined with works." They will cite that “even the demons believe” (James 2:19) in their sermons and will contend that even the "faith of demons" is the same as other faith "except" for the lack of good works, which explains why they have so much faith in water baptism and other works for salvation.

They also place repentance "after" faith and understood it as moral “self-reformation.” They reverse the scriptural order of repent/believe/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. To the contrary we find:

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

*NOTICE THE ORDER.*

In regards to belief/faith, members of the church of Christ (and other works-salvationists) often fail to understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of faith which is believing/trusting/relying in Jesus Christ for eternal life, and most cannot distinguish between mere intellectual or "mental assent" belief from personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

 

[Sai]

Alex2165 simply refuses to accept the truth about repentance and sadly, I've seen numerous people turn repentance into a false addition to the gospel. The church of Christ for example basically understands faith as "mental assent" belief "conjoined with works." They will cite that “even the demons believe” (James 2:19) in their sermons and will contend that even the "faith of demons" is the same as other faith "except" for the lack of good works, which explains why they have so much faith in water baptism and other works for salvation.

They also place repentance "after" faith and understood it as moral “self-reformation.” They reverse the scriptural order of repent/believe/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. To the contrary we find:

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

*NOTICE THE ORDER.*

In regards to belief/faith, members of the church of Christ (and other works-salvationists) often fail to understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of faith which is believing/trusting/relying in Jesus Christ for eternal life, and most cannot distinguish between mere intellectual or "mental assent" belief from personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

The birds of the air nesting in the mustard tree


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[Hobie]

Actually, I do believe in repentance and confession and I really don't appreciate your straw man argument or your slander. As I already pointed out, to repent means to think differently or afterwards reconsider. To perceive afterwards, change of mind. To change one's mind or purpose. That is the original meaning of the word. Not sure why you are trying to twist it. Speaking of the church of Christ, they change the scriptural order of repentance and faith by placing repentance "after" faith and basically define repentance as "moral self-reformation." To the contrary we find:

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

People who attend the church of Christ typically cannot seem to grasp a deeper faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why they have so much faith in "water and works" for salvation.

In regards to instrumental music in church, the church of Christ claims that no musical instruments were used in the first century church, yet in Ephesians 5:19, we read - "..speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.." and correspondingly Colossians 3:16 says to, "..admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." The word "psalm" in the Greek dictionary, definition (#5568): "A set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp, or other instrument)." The root word of psalm is "psallo" which means to means "to twitch, twang or pluck," such as pluck a string of a musical instrument.

But once their is a turning away from sin and to God, then the scripture is clear what happens...

James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[mailmandan]

But once their is a turning away from sin and to God, then the scripture is clear what happens...

James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Repentance results in a change of actions, which is the fruit of repentance.

 

[Hobie]

Repentance results in a change of actions, which is the fruit of repentance.

Even if they are forced to a change of actions, it does not mean they repent...

Revelation 16:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

[mailmandan]

Even if they are forced to a change of actions, it does not mean they repent...

Revelation 16:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Repentance is not forced or legalistic for those who truly have repented. Blaspheming the God of heaven is not the fruit of repentance.

 

[Hobie]

Repentance is not forced or legalistic for those who truly have repented. Blaspheming the God of heaven is not the fruit of repentance.

With God you must choose to repent, but He always is there out of love to encourage it.

Revelation 3:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

 

[mailmandan]

With God you must choose to repent, but He always is there out of love to encourage it.

Revelation 3:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Of course we must choose to repent and God (out of love) is longsuffering toward us and is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

God commands sinners both to repent (Acts 17:30) and to believe (Acts 16:31). Both repentance and faith are necessary for salvation. Both are gracious gifts of God.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

God grants people repentance unto life. Those who do not repent and believe will not be saved.

 

[atpollard]

Some people claim that repentance has no place in salvation, that you can believe in Jesus as “Savior” but never repent of your sin. That you can be saved even if you continue in chained to sin and iniquity just as it was before you became a Christian, that no change is needed.

Who says this?
Who are these hypothetical “some people”?

“Some people” wear aluminum foil hats to prevent the Aliens from reading their thoughts, but they are generally not people of influence.

 

[AustinC]

With God you must choose to repent, but He always is there out of love to encourage it.

Revelation 3:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Will you acknowledge that the letters to the churches, in Revelation, are written to believers?

Therefore, repentance is what believers do. Non-believers do not repent because they do not believe there is any need to repent.

 

[Hobie]

Will you acknowledge that the letters to the churches, in Revelation, are written to believers?

Therefore, repentance is what believers do. Non-believers do not repent because they do not believe there is any need to repent.

So who decides who is a believer, is that given to man, of course not. So not a really something that man can go around judging or declaring, that is in Gods hands. Remember, Judas was seen as a believer, while the thief on the cross was not.

 

[AustinC]

So who decides who is a believer, is that given to man, of course not. So not a really something that man can go around judging or declaring, that is in Gods hands. Remember, Judas was seen as a believer, while the thief on the cross was not.

God decides who will believe.
There are many who will say "Lord, Lord" and God will say "Depart from me, I never knew you." (Matt 25)

 

[Sai]

Is it still not needed?


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[Barry Johnson]

Repentance is part of it, or else how can you turn from sin and to God.

Turning from sin / stop sinning / promise to obey / commitment/ ect to be saved is a false message .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Repentance is part of it, or else how can you turn from sin and to God.

'turning from sin ' to be saved is not biblical.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Without repentance from sin, there can be no saving faith, no Holy Spirit, no true 'regeneration' as you call it, just a mere form of legalism or intellectual agreement with certain facts or doctrines whether true or not.. You would have a form of godliness, but which denied the power thereof, when it was not combined with true repentance for sin, and a change of life.

Look at what Christ tells the woman caught in adultery....

John 8:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Then He follows up with this...

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Does anybody think from the words of Christ, it was ok for her to continue in the sin and darkness she was in, of course not. Clearly there needed to be repentance and change...

Should Jesus under the law have said " Go sin some more " ?

 

[atpollard]

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side, "what you change your mind about" and faith in Christ is on the positive side, "the new direction of this change of mind." *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ.

This has been my empirical view of "salvation". It was never a secret ritual or chant in unison or a 12 step program. If you don't walk away from an encounter with the great I AM shaken to the core and changed in some way that you just can't explain, then you haven't met GOD.

It is about a fundamental realignment.
Is it about leaving something behind? Yes.
It is about moving towards something completely different. Yes.
Is it about making a choice to follow? Yes.
Is it about being irresistible drawn into a relationship? Yes.

 

[utilyan]

Guys of course Jesus was just joking when he went around telling people to repent cause he knew no one can repent unless he sticks his hand up your back and works you like a puppet.