2) Yes, they were able to hear and understand the gospel, and accepted it to a degree.
We either believe God's Word as it is written or we do not.
MATTHEW 13:20-21 [20], But he that received the seed into stony places,
the same is he that hears the word, and immediately with joy receives it; [21], Yet has he not root in himself, but
ENDURES FOR A WHILE: BUT WHEN TRIBULATION OR PERSECUTION ARISES BECAUSE OF THE WORD, BY AND BY HE IS OFFENDED .
Second seed; in stony places: receives the Word of God and rejoices and ENDURES FOR A WHILE BUT FALLS AWAY because of tribulation and persecution, because they did not receive a LOVE OF THE TRUTH (no root) that they might be saved *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-12. What ever why you want to look at this scripture brother it only supports what is being shared with you and that is you can RECEIVE GOD'S WORD and FALL AWAY from believing and following it. These are Gods' Word not mine.
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Similar thoughts in the scriptures provided here showing that Believers can fall away from the truth of God's Word back to a life of sin and not be saved...
2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-13
[1], Now
WE (believers) beseech you,
BROTHERS (believers), by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him,
[2], THAT
YOU (believers) BE NOT SOON SHAKEN IN MIND OR BE TROUBLED, NEITHER BY SPIRIT OF BY WORDNOR BY LETTER AS FROM
US (believers) AS THE DAY OF THE LORD IS AT HAND.
Note the context here is to fellow believers (brothers; us; we) with a WARNING given not to be DECEIVED, SHAKEN IN MIND (depart the faith) because they day of the Lord is at hand.
This is the context of the topic of discussion. Paul continues...
[3], LET NO MAN DECEIVE
YOU (brothers; believers) BY ANY MEANS: FOR THAT DAY (2nd coming) SHALL NOT COME EXCEPT THERE BE A FALLING AWAY FIRST (of believers), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
Note before the 2nd coming of the Lord there WILL BE a FALLING AWAY of BELIEVERS before the antichrist is revealed...
[4], Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
[5], Remember you not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
[6], And now you know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time.
[7], For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now lets will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[8], And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[9], Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10], And with all delusion of unrighteousness
IN THEM (fallen believers) THAT PERISH; BECAUSE THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED.
Note: the FALLING AWAY described in v3 is because those who fell away from God's Word (brothers fellow believers) were SHAKEN IN MIND v2 and were DECEIVED v3 because they received not the love of the truth v10.
[11], And for this cause God shall send
THEM (fallen believers) strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Note: because these believers had the truth but did not love of the truth (put it before everything in their life) v11, they were shaken in mind v2, became deceived v3, had fallen away from believing and following God's Word v3 and for this cause God let them follow strong delusions to believe a lie v11 because they did not love the truth more than the things of the world v10.
[12], That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Note: the end result of all those who once believed but did not love the truth of God's Word more than the things of the world and choose to turn away from believing the truth of God's Word? They are to be damned, they lose their salvation because they were not born again to love and had pleasure in sin (unrighteousness) *
1 JOHN 5:17.
[13], But WE are bound to give thanks always to God FOR YOU BROTHERS beloved of the Lord, because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth
Note: part of the closing statement here who is the being spoken to; Believers or Unbelievers? "FOR YOU BROTHERS" is in reference to those who are BELIEVERS those who did not receive the love of the truth v10 had FALLEN AWAY from the faith v3 because they were SHAKEN IN MIND v2 and DECEIVED v10 because they had pleasure in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS v12 and did not love the truth v10 God sent them strong delusions that they might be damned v12
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Similar thoughts in the scriptures provided here showing that Believers can fall away from the truth of God's Word back to a life of sin and not be saved...
HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], And have TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME,
Who are we talking about here; BELIEVERS of UNBELIEVERS? Were these BELIEVERS Born again christians
1. Having been enlightened v4;
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift v4;
3. Having been made partakers of the Holy Ghost v5;
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God v4;
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come v5
[6],
IF THEY (believers)
SHALL FALL AWAY, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame.
Yep, BELIEVERS having fallen away from the HEAVENLY gift back into sin..
[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; WHOS END IS TO BE BURNED.
Yep thier end is to be burned does not sound like they will be going into God's Kingdom not having any REPENTANCE for sin (v6).
and again more WARNINGS from God's Word to believers...
HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], FOR IF
WE (believers) SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Yep seems like those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are God's Adversaries who will receive the judgments of God. Do you think these people will enter into God's Kingdom?
3) We differ on the next point. You apparently believe that when a person believes, they are "automatically saved" whereas I believe that only when and if God credits their "faith" as righteousness, are they transferred into Christ which is salvation.
No brother. It is God's Word not mine that says when we believe we are in a saved state before God. We do not receive eternal life however until we have been tried and endure to the end *JOHN 3:15-21. We have the hope of eternal life today as we believe and follow God's Word *TITUS 1:2; TITUS 3:7; TITUS 2:13; 1 JOHN 3:3; 1 JOHN 3:15; 1 PETER 1:21; 1 PETER 1:3; HEBREWS 6:18; 2 THESSALONIANS 5:8; 2 THESSALOIANS 2:19 etc...
We receive eternal life when we have been tried and endure temptation to the end (death or 2nd coming) and have been found to continue to believe and follow God's Word *JAMES 1:12; MATTHEW 24:12-13; MATTHEW 10:22; 1 PETER 1:13; HEBREWS 6:11; HEBREWS 3:6;
If we FALL AWAY back to a life of known unrepentant sin and no longer believe and follow God's Word we are not in a saved state before God *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-27; MATTHEW 7:22-23
4) This passage, and all of scripture supports my OSAS view. Again I point to the "believers" of Matthew 7 who carried out ministry, at least in their minds, but we never saved.
No brother they teach the opposite of once saved always saved. If we are once saved always saved why are there so many WARNINGS in God's Word not to depart the faith and return back into a life of sin if it was not possible to do so?
These scriptures do not agree with OSAS which has it's origin from the father of lies first spoken to Eve in the garden of Edan *GENESIS 3:1-5.
5) "Enduring" to the end "proves" salvation, rather than "provides" salvation.
If you are once saved always saved why are we WARNED about FALLING AWAY and not enduring to the END and those who do not endure to the end do not receive eternal life? Think it through brother may you perceive.
Hope this helps.
