Is salvation conditional on choosing to believe and follow Gods Word?

[Wesley Briggman]

Rom 3:23 KJV - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 5:12 KJV - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Spiritually dead men have no choice in spiritual matters such as choosing Christ as their savior.


Eph 2:1 KJV - And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:5 KJV - Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;

God's children are quickened (make spiritually alive) by Him together with Christ. This is His doings, not ours.

Does this mean that we are saved to continue in sin or is salvation from sin?

A child of God cannot live and practice habitual sin. God chastises His children who sin without repentance. His children are not free from sin, but thorough redemption are free from the eternal penalty of their sin.

Heb 12:8 KJV - But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

If you are living happily in sin, you are none of His household.

My moto: Don't condemn what God condones and don't condone what God condemns.

 

[3rdAngel]

Hello Wesley, nice to meet you here . Some comments for your consideration below..

Rom 3:23 KJV - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 5:12 KJV - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Indeed all of us are sinners and the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is what saves the cheifest of sinners like me *ROMANS 6:23; 1 TIMOTHY 1:15 . So is the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and God's salvation, from sin or so we can continue in sin in your view *JOHN 8:31-36? What do you think is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *2 TIMOTHY 3:5; 1 JOHN 3:6-10; MATTHEW 7:22-23?

Spiritually dead men have no choice in spiritual matters such as choosing Christ as their savior.

We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8. Faith comes also as a gift through the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17 and it is God that makes us spiritually alive when we were dead in tresspasses and sin *EPHESIANS 2:1 and says;

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE LIFE, that both you and your seed may live: That you may love the LORD your God, and that you may obey his voice, and that you may hold to him: for he is your life, and the length of your days: that you may dwell in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them *DEUTERONOMY 30:19-20.

Our part is to choose to believe and follow God's Word or not to believe and follow God's Word. We cannot serve two masters for we will love the one and hate the other *MATTHEW 6:24.

JOSHUW 24:15 And if it seem evil to you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY WHO YOU WILL SERVE; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Eph 2:1 KJV - And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:5 KJV - Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;

God's children are quickened (make spiritually alive) by Him together with Christ. This is His doings, not ours.

No one has said differently. Read EPHESIANS 2:1-5 with ROMANS 6.

A child of God cannot live and practice habitual sin. God chastises His children who sin without repentance. His children are not free from sin, but thorough redemption are free from the eternal penalty of their sin.

Heb 12:8 KJV - But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

If you are living happily in sin, you are none of His household.

My moto: Don't condemn what God condones and don't condone what God condemns.

What is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:3-10; 1 JOHN 2:1-4; 2 TIMOTHY 3:5; 1 JOHN 3:6-10; MATTHEW 7:22-23 in your view Wesley? Nice talking with you brother and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

God bless

 

[37818]

. . . why in your view did you think the question being asked is a loaded question?

"Q2 Is salvation condtional on BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's Word or just believing it?"

What do the scriptures in the OP say in your view?

The question as you asked it was a complex question. Following God's word is a work and not limited to God's gift of salvation. The gift of salvation is through faith alone, in that salvation is not being do to any work on the part of the believer. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, . . ." -- Epesians 2:8-9. In that text being "saved" is the "gift." Now faith as a gift is do to God giving the changed mind in order to believe in God's gift of being "saved." 2 Timothy 2:25, ". . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ."

 

[Wesley Briggman]

What is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil

1Jo 3:10 KJV - In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1Jo 3:11 KJV - For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1Jo 3:12 KJV - Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Are we all God's children, or only Christians? | GotQuestions.org

 

[3rdAngel]

The question as you asked it was a complex question. Following God's word is a work and not limited to God's gift of salvation. The gift of salvation is through faith alone, in that salvation is not being do to any work on the part of the believer. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, . . ." -- Epesians 2:8-9. In that text being "saved" is the "gift." Now faith as a gift is do to God giving the changed mind in order to believe in God's gift of being "saved." 2 Timothy 2:25, ". . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ."

Isn't following God's Word, God's work in all those who believe his Word? How do you read PHILIPPIANS 2:13? Also, are you saying faith is not a gift of God also? I think I already posted that salvation is a gift in EPHESIANS 2:8-9 but also that faith is also a gift through given us by God through his Word. Being saved is a gift of God through faith as we believe and follow God's Word. Why do you say that faith is not a gift of God? Now if Grace comes through faith *EPHESIANS 2:8-9 and God has given every man a measure of faith *ROMANS 12:3 through his Word *ROMANS 10:17. How is faith not a gift of God to all who believe and follow God's Word? If there is no word there is no faith. The Word comes from God as a gift to all mankind.

God bless

 

[3rdAngel]

1Jo 3:10 KJV - In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1Jo 3:11 KJV - For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1Jo 3:12 KJV - Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Hi Welsey nice to see you again.

I noticed you left out the context of 1 JOHN 3:10-12 when asked the question what is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil. Is there any reason for this? As the context you have left out here actually answers the question above. V10 you quoted is the summary statement of that which proceeded it. Let's add the context back into the question being asked and start from v6 through to v10...

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CHILDREN OF GOD AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL?

1 JOHN 3:6-10
[6], WHOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM .

Those who abide in Him (Christ) do not practice sin. Those who practice sin have not seen him or know him. These scriptures link to 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and MATTHEW 7:22-23 (take a look).

[7], Little children (believers), LET KNOW MAN DECEIVE YOU: HE THAT DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTOUESS EVEN AS HE IS RIGHTOUESS.

Ok John is following the predeeding thoughts on sin and not to sin stating it is only those who DO RIGHTEOUSNESS that are righteous even as He (Jesus) is righteous. Righteousness is defined in the scriptures as God's LAW (10 Commandments) which is the definition of what righteousness is *PSALMS 119:172 and the definition of what sin is if broken *1 JOHN 3:4 (prior context) ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:8-12

[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Here we go; He that commits sin is of the devil. The children of the devil are now defined as all those who practice known unrepentant sin.

[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Here the children of God are defined as those who do not practice sin because they are born of the Word of God

[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Summary statement is v10 says "IN THIS (to practice sin or not to practice sin v6-9) the children of God are manifest and the children of the devil.

.............

So what is the answer to the question; What is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil?

Answer. SIN is the difference! Those who are the children of God do not practice sin and those who are the children of the devil practice known unrepentant sin. This is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to God's Word. Sin is the breaking of anyone of God's 10 commandments. If we break God's law or do not believe and follow his Word it is sin *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20; JAMES 2:8-10; ROMANS 14:23; EXODUS 20:1-17.

Hope this helps

God bless

 

[1689Dave]

Conditional salvation turns the gospel into law and grace into works. God saves people making repentant believers out of unbelievers. And by nature of the New Birth they believe (faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit) and live a holy life. “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (NASB95)

 

[3rdAngel]

Conditional salvation turns the gospel into law and grace into works. God saves people making repentant believers out of unbelievers. And by nature of the New Birth they believe (faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit) and live a holy life. “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (NASB95)

God indeed does save people that were unbelievers making them repentant believers as they believe and follow His Word *ROMANS 10:17, but nope, salvation is indeed conditional on believing and following God's Word (see scriptures in the OP; post 1 and 2)! By their fruits you shall know them *JOHN 15:1-10. No fruit, no saving faith *JAMES 2:18-20; 26. Salvation according to the scriptures shown all through the Old and New Testament scriptures is conditional on believing and following God's Word. Those who say they believe but do not follow have the faith of devils *JAMES 2:19; 1 JOHN 2:1-4; .JOHN 10:1-10; 25-29. Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:3-10; REVELATION 14:12.

 

[1689Dave]

Nope! By their fruits you shall know them *JOHN 15:1-10. No fruit, no saving faith *JAMES 2:18-20; 26. Salvation according to the scriptures shown all through the Old and New Testament is conditional on believing and following God's Word. Those who say they believe but do not follow have the faith of devils. Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:3-10; 1 JOHN 2:1-4.

This changes the gospel into law (similar to the Ten Commandments which could not save) and grace into works. "Accepting Jesus" = trying to keep the first commandment.

 

[3rdAngel]

This changes the gospel into law (similar to the Ten Commandments which could not save) and grace into works. "Accepting Jesus" = trying to keep the first commandment.

Not at all. How can we have law without grace when it is law that leads to Grace through faith *EPHESIANS 2:8 for obedience to God's Word *ROMANS 1:5; GALATIANS 3:22-25; ROMANS 3:31. It is only through the law that we have a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7. If there is no law then there is no sin if we do not know what sin is we have no need of a Saviour *MATTHEW 9:12-13 if we have no saviour we are lost because we are still in our sins and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 2:12-13. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. You are mixing up the fruit of faith with the works of the law. We are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves, it is a gift of God and not of works lest anymany should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8. The fruit of grace through faith is obedience to God's Word *ROMANS 1:5.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him *JOHN 10:1-10; 25-29

 

[1689Dave]

Not at all. How can we have law without grace when it is law that leads to Grace through faith *EPHESIANS 2:8 for obedience to God's Word *ROMANS 1:5; GALATIANS 3:22-25; ROMANS 3:31. It is only through the law that we have a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7. If there is no law then there is no sin if we do not know what sin is we have no need of a Saviour *MATTHEW 9:12-13 if we have no saviour we are lost because we are still in our sins and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 2:12-13. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. You are mixing up the fruit of faith with the works of the law. We are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves, it is a gift of God and not of works lest anymany should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8. The fruit of grace through faith is obedience to God's Word *ROMANS 1:5.

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him *JOHN 10:1-10; 25-29

This is true as far as scripture goes, but the new nature needs no law, love fulfills it without being told. “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (NASB95)

 

[37818]

Being saved is a gift of God through faith as we believe and follow God's Word. Why do you say that faith is not a gift of God?

There are two issues. 1) In Ephesians 2:8-9 being "saved" is the "gift." Faith is not being said to be the gift. 2) Faith being regarded as a gift is do to God giving the change of mind by reason of His word, 2 Timothy 2:25; John 17:17; Romans 10:17 (Romans 10:17-18; Psalms 19:4, natural revelation).

 

[37818]

Brother did you read the OP? What do you think the OP is saying? Also, what does the OP say in relation to what it means to believe according to the scriptures? What is the gospel of Jesus Chrsit in your view?

I see your original post asking 3 questions. Which I answered. Which it seems my answers were not understood by you.

What is believed makes a difference. Not merely believing. Merely believing in God is not enough. Believing in God's gift of forgiveness by way of the gospel is what matters. The gospel, the good news being God sent His Son to take our death of sin upon Himself on our behalf, that we might have eternal life as a gift. As an evidence that God did this for us, His Son was rasied from the dead that we might be justified in believing in God through His Son. References 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, Romans 1:16; also Romans 4:25; Romans 5:8; Romans 6:23; 1 John 2:2; Romans 3:23-26 to add a few more. Then there is the full forgiveness promised Jeremiah 31:34; cited in Hebrews 10:17. There is John 3:16, and 1 John 5:9-13. Also the promise found in Isaiah 53:6.

 

[3rdAngel]

This is true as far as scripture goes, but the new nature needs no law, love fulfills it without being told. “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (NASB95)

Yes brother indeed! Love does indeed fulfill the law. It is not separate from it though because on it hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40. This is the parable the seed is the Word of God *LUKE 8:11

God bless

 

[3rdAngel]

There are two issues. 1) In Ephesians 2:8-9 being "saved" is the "gift." Faith is not being said to be the gift. 2) Faith being regarded as a gift is do to God giving the change of mind by reason of His word, 2 Timothy 2:25; John 17:17; Romans 10:17 (Romans 10:17-18; Psalms 19:4, natural revelation).

Not sure why your repeating yourself here brother. I already agreed with you in the rest of the post you are quoting from which said...

Being saved is a gift of God through faith as we believe and follow God's Word. Why do you say that faith is not a gift of God? I asked this question after providing more scripture showing that it is God that gives every man a measure of faith as we choose to believe and follow his Word *ROMANS 12:3. The same as we receive God's grace through this very Word *EPHESIANS 2:8. God's Word teaches us that we only have faith as we believe and follow God's Word because faith comes my hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It is therefore through the Word of God (Jesus; JOHN 1:1-4; 14) that we have faith which is God's gift to all those who believe.
If there is no word there is no faith. The Word comes from God as a gift to all mankind but many are called and few are chosen *MATTHEW 22:14

God's Sheep heat His Voice (the Word)

 

[3rdAngel]

I see your original post asking 3 questions. Which I answered. Which it seems my answers were not understood by you.

What is believed makes a difference. Not merely believing. Merely believing in God is not enough. Believing in God's gift of forgiveness by way of the gospel is what matters. The gospel, the good news being God sent His Son to take our death of sin upon Himself on our behalf, that we might have eternal life as a gift. As an evidence that God did this for us, His Son was rasied from the dead that we might be justified in believing in God through His Son. References 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, Romans 1:16; also Romans 4:25; Romans 5:8; Romans 6:23; 1 John 2:2; Romans 3:23-26 to add a few more. Then there is the full forgiveness promised Jeremiah 31:34; cited in Hebrews 10:17. There is John 3:16, and 1 John 5:9-13. Also the promise found in Isaiah 53:6.

I understood your posts the first time brother. This is why I asked if you read the scriptures in the OP. It seems you have not or you would not be posting what you are posting. You did not read the OP did you. I am not sure what your posting here has to do with the OP but I love the scriptures. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Van]

Is salvation conditional on choosing to believe and follow Gods Word?

No

2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God chooses individuals for salvation through "sanctification by the Spirit" and "faith in the truth."

Who decides whether the "faith" we put in Christ is sufficient for our election to salvation? God does. When He credits (or not) our faith as righteousness.

What does God do when and if He credits our faith in Christ as righteousness? God sets us apart in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit. Thus this verse tells us both the how (by setting us apart in Christ) and the basis (by crediting our faith as righteousness.)

 

[Van]

John 3:15-16 (YLT)15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during, 16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

In light of my prior post, consider an alternate translation of John 3:16, ...that every one believing into Him may not perish but have eternal life. By changing "in" to "into" the action by God to credit our faith and put us in Christ is presented in the text.

 

[Van]

Two quick points on "following God's word." When we make disciples we are to teach them "all Christ commanded." Do you know all of His commands?

Pretty hard to follow what you have not studied.

James tells us about "live" faith verses "dead" faith. The faith God credits would be live faith, reflecting we have gone "all in" for Christ and are willing to walk through fire to follow Him. But we fail, we sin, we come short of the glory of God. Does this mean we "lose" our salvation? May it never be!! But if a person stops striving to follow Christ, he or she was never saved, because if we are born anew, God protects (keeps) our faith such that we cannot lose it. 1 Peter 1:3-5

 

[Reformed Apologist]

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed invain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures..." 1 Cor 15