Is Suicide a sin?

[canadyjd]

I see that several others have already made the same point. Had I known, I would not have "piled on".

peace to youraise:

 

[lgpruitt]

Well said bapmom.....you're right on target!
:thumbs:

W

Thing is, there's a difference between "clinical depression" and just being "down in the dumps".

SFIC, you've had trials, yes, but trials are not what cause clinical depression.

I think its a good idea for a Christian to first search their heart and be sure they are not hiding some sin from God and/or from themselves. However, a person who is depressed because of sin in their life KNOWS that there is sin in their life. This is a person who is living in direct conflict with clear laws of God and they KNOW it. They KNOW they are not doing what God wants them to do in some way. Yeah, that will cause a depression. But that's not clinical depression.

You can become clinically depressed even when you are doing right and everything's going well.

 

[lgpruitt]

Tiny Tim
I applaud what you have said here.

Diabetics need their meds....as do people with high blood pressure(such as myself) and those with depression, clinical depression, NEED their meds as well. Depression runs in my family. As does alcoholism...luckily I don't suffer from alcoholism as my father did. But, depression runs on both sides of my family. My cousin was so deeply depressed he commited suicide as I indicated earlier on this thread. I am a Christian. I don't just say that....I live it. But, I can also admit I have been diagnosed clinically depressed before. Do I feel any less of a person? NO Do I feel any less of a Christian? NO
Do I wear glasses? YES.....lol

:Fish: :type:

Sir, I feel you have crossed the line.

You are not a Dr. There are a lot of things that God has revealed to man through the ages that have helped mankind. Drugs that cure illnesses are one of them... Depression can be caused by a chemical inbalance. It is as much an illness as any other.

I'm sure you have taken medicine in the past for certain things... Maybe even are on some prescription drug now.

I know that what I am about say could be construed as mean spirited, but I don't want to come off that way. I mean this with the utmost respect for you. We have debated in the past, and have agreed in the past, so please don't be offended by this statement:

I notice you wear glasses... Jesus never prescribed glasses for anyone either... he healed them.

Now, that said, I wear them too.
YOu said he never prescribed drugs, he healed them. To be consistent, then let's both throw away our glasses, go see benny hinn and be healed.

We both know that is ridiculous, but so is the statement that depression cannot be treated with drugs.

SFIC, I truly feel you are a man of God, your wife also. (well she is a woman of God) So please analyze what you said. There are many Christians that are suffering from depression, and you are slamming your brothers and sisters in Christ, by saying they are that way because of demons.

That is dangerous. I plead with you to reconsider what you believe, or maybe talk to some professional people that are aware of clinical depression.

Again, I mean no offense, I just hurt for all the depressed that may read your posts.

 

[Phillip]

Bottom line

In my opinion, suicide would have to be a sin since it is taking a human life. I do NOT agree however, as some do that committing suicide sends someone to hell if they are a Christian.

I know a pastor who was very, very much a child of God and he went through clinical depression and committed suicide.

I know of another pastor who lost his sixteen year old daughter in a car accident. The pastor died very young; I would imagine it was from stress and/or depression brought on by his daughter's young demise.

I think God scooped up both of these men into His hands and comforted them. I believe the blood of Christ covered their sins, past, present and future. Suicide is no different than any other number of sins we Christians participate in every single day.

I think people who contemplate suicide need professional help and they may need nothing more than an anti-depressant to bring them out of their clinical depression; or it may be rooted in much deeper causes.

Reaching the point of feeling like taking your own life must be a very horrible situation. Then again, it may be a cry for help.

The sad fact is that many suicides are cries for help, but statistics show that men are usually more successful in achieving death because of the methods they choose compared to women. Men may use a gun or car while women will often slit a wrist or take pills and the risk of dying is lower.

Anybody who shows suicidal tendencies needs to be treated as someone who needs help from Christians like us, whether or not they are saved. Their soul comes first, but their life is important if they loose the opportunity to become a Christian.

Can Christians commit suicide? Absolutely. I humbly believe it is somewhat less likely because we Christians have someone we can turn to in times of heartache; while non-Christians have no-one. We lost a 16 year old boy this week with a gun accident. Would his mother be suicidal? I don't know, I have never lost a child, but I certainly would not condemn her if she became that way. I would try to offer help.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Matthew 7:21-23 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

James 1:12 12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Endure: [SIZE=+1]5278. hupomeno[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Search for G5278 in KJVSL[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]upomenw[/SIZE] hupomeno hoop-om-en'-o

upomenw hupomeno hoop-om-en'-o

from 5259 and 3306; to stay under (behind), i.e. remain; figuratively, to undergo, i.e. bear (trials), have fortitude, persevere:--abide, endure, (take) patient(-ly), suffer, tarry behind.

See Greek 5259
See Greek 3306

How can one be said to endure temptation when he or she gives into it by murdering theirself?

Christ said in John 14, Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be dismayed.... I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you.

We have the Comforter, the Holy Spirit in our lives... or are supposed to. How can one claim to have the comforter and not have a peace to keep them from suicide?

 

[Phillip]

Just curious

Are you saying that a person who commits suicide does not go to heaven if they were saved?

 

[dntccc]

Is there a thread on the security of the believer, OSAS, etc.? I can see where this thread has touched on that topic and felt that I did not need to address this issue here since it would not necessarily be on topic. The original question just asked if suicide was a sin, and not, if it was a sin, if the person committing it would not go to heaven if he was saved. By the way, I do think that suicide is a sin.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Revelation 21:8 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I am sorry, but I find it hard to believe that when God said 'murderers' shall have their part in the lake of fire, that He did not mean all murderers. Why did He not say some?

Also, since I have placed my faith in Christ, by the logic that I can commit suicide and still go to heaven, I can also go rob a bank, kill multiple people, commit adultery, etc.

I don't think so.

Galatians 5:19-21 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

There it is again, the big negative; shall not. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure it out that those who claim to be of Christ, but die without repenting of those works of the flesh (repenting of does not mean saying one is sorry for them and then commit them; that is Catholic teaching) will end up in the lake of fire.

I am saying that a saved person is not going to commit suicide. People can be pastors, evangelists, whatever... The Bible says that God will keep them from the hour of temptation. I believe it. I also know He will not allow so much of a temptation that the true child of God will not be able to bear it.

Consider the trials of Paul, three times shipwrecked, received forty stripes save one (39) five times, arrested many times, stoned once, beaten with rods...

Why do you suppose Paul did not commit suicide? Surely he went through much more than the people committing suicide today go through.

 

[Phillip]

So, you don't believe in once saved always saved?

When Jesus was talking about murderers, pay attention to who else he lists. It includes all of us. The point is, if a person is not covered by the blood of Christ he/she cannot enter heaven.

When we are saved by accepting Jesus as the Son of God our sins are cleansed as white as snow. Past, present future.

If what you are saying is true, then nobody would get into heaven if they didn't ask for forgiveness for any sin (that keeps us out of heaven--remember, sin is like a chain, you break one link, the chain falls).

If you believe repententance is necessary before death then that IS a Catholic belief. If you believe it is necessary just for certain sins, then why would Jesus die on the cross to cover all sins?

When we stand before God, Jesus is our attorney, our replacement, He simply tells the Father that he/she is mine. That means the sins are covered. Therefore, that person does not enter heaven as a murderer. They enter as being cleaned by the very blood of Christ.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

So, you don't believe in once saved always saved?

Yes, I most certainly do believe once saved, always saved. I stand on the eternal security of the true child of God. He is able to keep His children from doing foolish acts such as suicide.

When Jesus was talking about murderers, pay attention to who else he lists. It includes all of us. The point is, if a person is not covered by the blood of Christ he/she cannot enter heaven.

When we are saved by accepting Jesus as the Son of God our sins are cleansed as white as snow. Past, present future.

Sacrifices of old covered, Christ cleansed. He did not cleanse our sins, He took them away and cast them into the sea; never to be remembered any more against us. (See Micah 7:19)

If what you are saying is true, then nobody would get into heaven if they didn't ask for forgiveness for any sin (that keeps us out of heaven--remember, sin is like a chain, you break one link, the chain falls).

Just asking for forgiveness of sins will not get a person into heaven, one must also be remorseful, have a broken and contrite spirit. Asking for forgiveness without true repentance is not going to get an answer from God. (see Psalm 66:18).

If you believe repententance is necessary before death then that IS a Catholic belief. If you believe it is necessary just for certain sins, then why would Jesus die on the cross to cover all sins?

Repentance is necessary for forgiveness of sin (see above).

When we stand before God, Jesus is our attorney, our replacement, He simply tells the Father that he/she is mine. That means the sins are covered. Therefore, that person does not enter heaven as a murderer. They enter as being cleaned by the very blood of Christ.[/quote]

Matthew 7:21 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Is suicide God's will? or satan's?

 

[Phillip]

I am certain tht suicide is definitely Satan's will, but how about the person who steals something.

You appear to be judging a person based on their actions, when Jesus is the only person who knows the heart of the person.

So, let me be real clear as to what you are saying. You are saying that if a person commits suicide there is no way that person could be a Christian?

Paul admitted that he did things he did not want to do because of the flesh. How do you determine which sins are not acceptable and which sins are acceptable.

Obviously all sins would be the preference of Satan and not God, but the fact is, we will sin until we die. How can you be the one to decide the one that shows you are not a Christian? Is this not the judgement that we are told not to do?

 

[Terry_Herrington]

For someone who thinks that suicide will always send the person to hell, let me ask one question.

Suicide is self-murder, and it is plain that the Bible says that no murderer shall inherit eternal life. Explain how Moses or David will be in heaven since they both committed murder?

Before you answer, let me give you my take on the subject. One who has trusted Jesus Christ for his salvation is viewed by God as being perfect in Christ. All his sins; past, present, and future have already been paid for and therefore are viewed by God as though they never existed. This, I believe would also include suicide. God is not allowing a murderer into heaven since, in His eyes the murderer is innocent.

 

[Phillip]

As I said, I had a pastor who I have no doubt was a Christian and you can use the verse about calling the Lord, Lord, but it doesn't fit in this case.

This man was definitely a Christian. Later in his life he committed suicide. Are you judging this man and saying that he is not going to heaven?

How about the girl who lost her sixteen year old son to a gun accident this week (that looks like a self-inflicted bad choice and the child is a Christian). She was hurting so bad that her father had to carry her down the isle, she could not go by herself. Would you judge her if she chose suicide during this tough time in her life?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

We are told to 'judge righteous judgment' by Christ Himself (see John 7:24)

First, there is no such thing as 'acceptable sin' in God's eyes. The scripture says ...

Revelation 21:8 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

also...

Galatians 5:19-21 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now, obviously these works are more than just murder which deem a person unworthy of entering heaven. But we are overlooking one thing...

One can ask for forgiveness for every one except the sin of suicide. One cannot say 'Lord, forgive me for committing suicide' and then commit it. The Bible says...

Psalm 66:18 18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:

One cannot have intentional sin in one's heart and expect God to overlook it when asked to do so before the sin is done.

I cannot say, 'Lord, forgive me for killing my nephew' and then go out and kill him.

If a person claiming to be saved, who claims he or she has placed their trust in Christ as Lord and Savior commits a sin and does not repent of that sin, nor feels the chastening hand of God after committing that sin, then one would have to come to the conclusion that that one could not be saved; for the Lord 'chastens whom he loveth.'

Since one cannot ask for forgiveness after that one has committed suicide, then that one has committed murder. And we know that no murderer shall enter heaven according to the verses above.

Now Philip, before you say I am judging wrongly, I have used God's Word to judge. And I do not believe that Word was used out of context.

 

[Phillip]

Catholic Belief

Thank you Terry, that is EXACTLY what I meant in an earlier post--we see eye-to-eye on this one.

standingfirm you are believing a Catholic belief. You are saying that confession is required before death since you say that you will go to hell because you cannot ask for forgiveness for it after the fact.

So, therefore you are saying that you do not believe in Once Saved always Saved. Otherwise, the person COULD be a Christian and reach a point in their life of suicide. You are saying that we must ask for forgiveness to get into heaven--another strike against once saved always saved.

Surely you don't believe in the Catholic belief of confession before death? Certainly you believe that Christ died once to cover all of our sins, past, present and future.

 

[Trotter]

Since one cannot ask for forgiveness after that one has committed suicide, then that one has committed murder. And we know that no murderer shall enter heaven according to the verses above.

That's how the Catholics reason it. but they think that a man has to pardon your sin.

God is no man. Either Christ's shed blood and sacrificial death is enough to cleanse and pardon sin, or it's not.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

What part of 'Murderers shall have their part in the lake of fire' am I misunderstanding?

I do believe in once saved, always saved. My wife can attest to that. The problem is, many who think they are saved, are not. Many go through life thinking because they joined a church or tithe, or shook the pastors hand are assured entrance into heaven.

NO, I do not hold to catholic beliefs. I hold to the Word of God. I cannot see God saying 'murderers will have their part in the lake of fire' and then allowing one who committed suicide to enter heaven. That would make God a liar, for a murderer would be in heaven.

Numbers 23:19 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Once one asks for forgiveness for murder, if one is truly repentent, God will forgive. He is faithful who promised. But you cannot ask forgiveness for your own murder after the fact.

 

[Trotter]

I cannot see God saying 'murderers will have their part in the lake of fire' and then allowing one who committed suicide to enter heaven. That would make God a liar, for a murderer would be in heaven.

The problem with the above is the very first letter. "I". YOU don't see God allowing someone like that to enter heaven. But, then, you're not God.

Nowhere in the bible do you find there not to be forgiveness for sin, save the sin of unbelief.

True, many in the pews know of God, but do not know Him. but that doesn't lend credence to your arguement.

Does the blood of Christ cover all sin, or only that which is confessed before death?

 

[Phillip]

That's how the Catholics reason it. but they think that a man has to pardon your sin.

God is no man. Either Christ's shed blood and sacrificial death is enough to cleanse and pardon sin, or it's not.

AMEN and AMEN brother Trotter. The Bible is clear as to what it takes to accept Jesus. I have done that, but I can also feel 100% confident that if I were to murder someone else or myself that I will still be in heaven. Jesus loves me the same.

For you see, just as you imply. We are ALL murderers, thieves, whoremongers and all of the other sins of mankind. If Jesus' blood was not enough, then nobody would be in heaven. Sin of ANY kind will not enter heaven. The meaning of those verses are very clear and obvious and have nothing to do with confessing after each sin.

Now, let me make one point. Although I have not seen any statistics I feel certain that people who have the hope of Jesus in their lives probably are less likely to commit suicide because they do know where they are going for eternity whereas those who are not Christians do not have this hope.

But, to say that we must ask for forgiveness before we die on each sin is ridiculous. Although we should, it ain't gonna happen. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You must believe in the non OSAS or not.

 

[Phillip]

What part of 'Murderers shall have their part in the lake of fire' am I misunderstanding?

I do believe in once saved, always saved. My wife can attest to that. The problem is, many who think they are saved, are not. Many go through life thinking because they joined a church or tithe, or shook the pastors hand are assured entrance into heaven.

NO, I do not hold to catholic beliefs. I hold to the Word of God. I cannot see God saying 'murderers will have their part in the lake of fire' and then allowing one who committed suicide to enter heaven. That would make God a liar, for a murderer would be in heaven.



Once one asks for forgiveness for murder, if one is truly repentent, God will forgive. He is faithful who promised. But you cannot ask forgiveness for your own murder after the fact.

I agree with you to the point that there are people who believe that they are saved and are not. this will always be a problem; but, this isn't what we are discussing. We are discussing whether or not a person THINKS they are Christians.

We are talking about whether or not suicide will keep a CHRISTIAN out of heaven. So, you believe that in 4000 years not a single Christian has committed suicide?