Is suicide unforgivable

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I would never recommend someone actively take their own life even in the face of suffering with cancer or anything. Use that time to spend with your family. Show them God's grace and allow God's grace to wash over you. I have been at the death bed of numerous people as they were dying of cancer and while it's not wonderful, there is a sweetness when surrounded by family, their pain is managed and they can finish their moments in God's presence.

Hmmmm....personally a trip to the Dr. Kevorkian of choice should NOT be taken off the table or vilified as some have done. Oregon has very open laws that allow for it. Pain is not always managed well, suffering is extremely heightened, strain on family becomes paramount, costs can put the family in debt....and the only ones getting richer are the darn doctors & hospitals.

 

[Zaac]

I believe sometimes medication helps us to have control of our mind. When there is a chemical component, we need to help balance that my medicine and it then helps our body to work properly.

I don't have a mental illness (that I know of ) but I do have something called polycystic ovarian syndrome and a portion of that is caused by insulin resistance. Basically, my body cannot read properly when I have insulin in my bloodstream so it keeps making more and more and more. It's kind of the opposite of diabetes. What happens with the extra insulin is that it affects all sorts of other systems that end up increasing my risk of infertility (absolutely affected my fertility), heart disease, ovarian cancer and uterine cancer. I have had multiple D&Cs due to excessive bleeding and I have many ovarian cysts. I could also eat super healthy and still store fat which makes me very unhealthy. HOWEVER, there is a medication called metformin that seems to help in my situation. By taking the metformin, my pancreas is no longer producing so much insulin, I dropped weight, my ovarian cysts have decreased dramatically and I have a regular cycle, thus decreasing my risk of uterine and ovarian cancer. By dropping the weight and not storing fat like I did before, I have decreased my risk of heart disease. Essentially, my body functions now the way it should just because of taking this medication.

I explained all of that to show how sometimes, something is off kilter in our body which then affects all kinds of other systems and by taking some medication to regulate what is off kilter, we can then begin to be "normal" again. It's not that we are being controlled by the medication but the medication is controlling what's wrong so that our brains can function properly.

Absolutely Ann. There is definitely some medicnes out there that chemically help bring things back into balance.

But there are just as many that seem to be sending so many folks over the edge. And they are massly used like Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Lexapro, and Wellbutrin.

Anti-depressants are dangerous.

 

[Deacon]

Medications are also at issue a lot when dealing with suicide. More and more, I've been seeing people on medications prescribed by their doctors that simply put them in a place they can't come out of.

So yes, often it is a selfish act. But often, because of some of the side effects of anti-depressants and other drugs, some are simply not left in their right mind.

I would urge anyone who has a family member whose mood has simply changed to keep an eye on them and possibly make those doctor's visits with them if they are on anti-depressants or anything that might cause suicidal thoughts. And there's a lot of them.

I have a differing viewpoint.
One of the young men came from a family that thought "holistic" therapy was better (more natural) and didn't want their son on any medication for depression.

I regret the decision they made and believe medication may have helped.

Medication has its place and can be used for good ... it can also be abused.
When used for depressions or associated mental illnesses it's best when used in conjunction with counseling.

Rob

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have dealt with suicide extensively. When I was pastoring in the reservation there was about a year and a half where I dealt with one or more suicides monthly some in consecutive weeks. I dealt with it so much I eventually became tired and distressed myself.

During this time I received training from both the Federal government and from SBC disaster relief as a chaplain.


It is easy to judge from a distance people who commit suicide. Quite frankly I have no tolerance for that judgment. Until you have looked into the eyes of people who have no hope in their mind time and again I suggest you save your judgment. Until you have looked into the eyes of a 16 year old girl who tells you she just has no hope just shut your mouth.

Until you have ministered to people who are in actual despair with real concerns I suggest you keep your pharisitical attitude to yourself. You know not of what you judge.

There are real and genuine reasons why people commit suicide and calling them selfish does nothing to address those needs. If you want to be unforgiving about suicide then you need to deal with God on that issue. Shame on you.

Been there & so I am of the same mindset.

 

[Zaac]

I have a differing viewpoint.
One of the young men came from a family that thought "holistic" therapy was better (more natural) and didn't want their son on any medication for depression.

I regret the decision they made and believe medication may have helped.

Medication has its place and can be used for good ... it can also be abused.
When used for depressions or associated mental illnesses it's best when used in conjunction with counseling.

Rob

Rob, I don't think our viewpoints differ that much. As I said to Ann, I agree that medications definitely have a place in treatment. Family members just need to REALLY know about some of these side effects because medications can make a perfectly sane person seem crazy.

I have seen too many families devastated by people taking their lives only to find out there was some mood altering drug involved in their "treatments".

 

[Zaac]

I have dealt with suicide extensively. When I was pastoring in the reservation there was about a year and a half where I dealt with one or more suicides monthly some in consecutive weeks. I dealt with it so much I eventually became tired and distressed myself.

During this time I received training from both the Federal government and from SBC disaster relief as a chaplain.


It is easy to judge from a distance people who commit suicide. Quite frankly I have no tolerance for that judgment. Until you have looked into the eyes of people who have no hope in their mind time and again I suggest you save your judgment. Until you have looked into the eyes of a 16 year old girl who tells you she just has no hope just shut your mouth.

I agree that this is an area that the church needs to tread softly and be most graceful. I have seen men and women who I have thought to be extremely strong Christians take their lives because they just don't feel anything or they feel like there is no hope for what they are feeling due to some mind-altering drug or something else.

It definitely doesn't help the families who are left behind .

 

[ashleysdad]

Ok, here goes I really need some advice. Yes I have been actively thinking about suicide for some time. Long story short. I have been married almost 20 years. About a month ago my wife and I separated and it was my fault. I didn't cheat and I am not abusive so nothing like that but I can lose my temper easy and when I do I say cutting things. I demanded respect but was slow to show it. As a result my wife has informed me that as far as she is concerned there is not way she wants to reconcile with me and of my 4 kids, 1 won't speak to me at all. 1 is very hesitant around me and is unsure if she wants to reconcile with me and the other 2 (the youngest) aren't sure how they feel and will only see me if one of the older ones comes with them. The more I see the damage I caused the more hopeless I feel. My kids are wonderful kids but because of my pride in having everyone believe I had such a great family, I was very hard on them for every thing they did. As a result they were left wondering if they were good enough for me and it seriously damaged their self esteem and confidence. I rarely showed grace only judgement. I look at myself and I feel shame and contempt. What kind of father does this? My oldest two are now in counseling to rebuild their self worth. I was given the greatest gift that God could give a person (outside salvation), a loving wife and 4 amazing kids and in less than 20 years I destroyed it. The only reason that I am still alive is because I am terrified about eternity thus the reason for the question. I have started an anti-depressant but no medicine can take this away or fix it. When I try to pray it feels as if Heaven is closed to me, I can actually really relate to King Saul at the end of his life when he could not hear from God and in desperation went to the witch of Endor. Any advice, any scripture, any prayers are welcome. When my wife and I separated I left the church that we were going to because she and the kids really loved it and were heavily involved and I did not want to cause them to stop going because I was there. As a result I am currently visiting a new church but don't have an "official" pastor yet.

 

[annsni]

I would highly recommend you find a good counselor for yourself and see if after a time your family would go as well. Yes, it sounds like you did some messing up but there is grace at the foot of the cross and nothing is impossible for God. You have seen what you have done and now it's time to see what you can do to get your own heart right and then see if you can restore a relationship with your wife and children. I will be praying for you brother!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ok, here goes I really need some advice. Yes I have been actively thinking about suicide for some time. Long story short. I have been married almost 20 years. About a month ago my wife and I separated and it was my fault. I didn't cheat and I am not abusive so nothing like that but I can lose my temper easy and when I do I say cutting things. I demanded respect but was slow to show it. As a result my wife has informed me that as far as she is concerned there is not way she wants to reconcile with me and of my 4 kids, 1 won't speak to me at all. 1 is very hesitant around me and is unsure if she wants to reconcile with me and the other 2 (the youngest) aren't sure how they feel and will only see me if one of the older ones comes with them. The more I see the damage I caused the more hopeless I feel. My kids are wonderful kids but because of my pride in having everyone believe I had such a great family, I was very hard on them for every thing they did. As a result they were left wondering if they were good enough for me and it seriously damaged their self esteem and confidence. I rarely showed grace only judgement. I look at myself and I feel shame and contempt. What kind of father does this? My oldest two are now in counseling to rebuild their self worth. I was given the greatest gift that God could give a person (outside salvation), a loving wife and 4 amazing kids and in less than 20 years I destroyed it. The only reason that I am still alive is because I am terrified about eternity thus the reason for the question. I have started an anti-depressant but no medicine can take this away or fix it. When I try to pray it feels as if Heaven is closed to me, I can actually really relate to King Saul at the end of his life when he could not hear from God and in desperation went to the witch of Endor. Any advice, any scripture, any prayers are welcome. When my wife and I separated I left the church that we were going to because she and the kids really loved it and were heavily involved and I did not want to cause them to stop going because I was there. As a result I am currently visiting a new church but don't have an "official" pastor yet.

I will just bet you are a young man. See both my brother & I both have been through this. We dont see ourselves as bullies but thats what both he & I were. sometimes it takes almost loosing something to realize how much you care for it.

Have you taken serious steps to amend your ways.....see killing yourself would solve nothing....but addressing your anger, accepting your mistakes as something you did yourself & BEGGING, and I mean really begging for forgiveness are much more rational ways of dealing with the problem.

Lastly, what does the pastor of that church tell you to do ....shouldnt you be speaking with him?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Also have you ever seen this movie....FIREPROOF YOUR MARRIAGE. I recommend it.:thumbsup:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0978715381...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_9rcx5lo79y_b

 

[annsni]

Also have you ever seen this movie....FIREPROOF YOUR MARRIAGE. I recommend it.:thumbsup:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0978715381...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_9rcx5lo79y_b

Excellent movie and unfortunately it's not out until August 28 but War Room is another one - focusing on the power of prayer.

AD - Pray. Pray that God would work in your life to bring about a great testimony to His power of change - of making you a new man from the inside out. Pray for your wife that God would protect her and soften her heart towards you. Pray for your children that they would be able to overcome their upbringing and learn forgiveness and grace. We will join you in those prayers!

 

[Sapper Woody]

I don't feel comfortable going over the details, but being a soldier suffering from PTSD, I have had a battle with depression. I wen through the whole "pushing away family" thing that is common with PTSD.

At one point, I was so low, that I wished I were dead. I even started thinking about if I decided to do it, what would be the least pain on my family. I know where you're coming from.

In your head, you know it's the wrong answer. And people like to throw scripture at you, and tell you to trust God. But you feel, like you said, as if Heaven is closed to you. You feel no connection to others, and any fun you do have just makes the bad times seem worse.

Brother, I still have a long way to go, but I'm recovering.

First, understand that you aren't alone. I have been there, as have others. Talk to someone. Preferably someone you trust. If you feel you can, you can even PM me, and i will talk with you.

Second, get somewhere by yourself in nature. Leave behind things you could use to harm yourself, such as guns, knives, and rope. Just get outside in the sun, and think for a while. Things seem better in the sun. You can't think clearly about the situation when you're alone in the dark. But out in the sun things seem better.

Finally, there will come a crucial moment. You will be forced in your mind to make a decision. What you decide there will make or break you. Lift your head, stick your chest out, and out loud say, "I'm stronger than this. I can make it. No matter what the world throws at me, I'll tackle it."

Brother, you've faced challenges in your life and overcome them. You've had hard times before. While seeming insurmountable right now, this is just another challenge to overcome. And you can overcome it.

 

[Greektim]

That is a very sad doctrine.

What is? Perseverance of the Saints?

 

[Zaac]

Ok, here goes I really need some advice. Yes I have been actively thinking about suicide for some time. Long story short. I have been married almost 20 years. About a month ago my wife and I separated and it was my fault. I didn't cheat and I am not abusive so nothing like that but I can lose my temper easy and when I do I say cutting things. I demanded respect but was slow to show it. As a result my wife has informed me that as far as she is concerned there is not way she wants to reconcile with me and of my 4 kids, 1 won't speak to me at all. 1 is very hesitant around me and is unsure if she wants to reconcile with me and the other 2 (the youngest) aren't sure how they feel and will only see me if one of the older ones comes with them. The more I see the damage I caused the more hopeless I feel. My kids are wonderful kids but because of my pride in having everyone believe I had such a great family, I was very hard on them for every thing they did. As a result they were left wondering if they were good enough for me and it seriously damaged their self esteem and confidence. I rarely showed grace only judgement. I look at myself and I feel shame and contempt. What kind of father does this? My oldest two are now in counseling to rebuild their self worth. I was given the greatest gift that God could give a person (outside salvation), a loving wife and 4 amazing kids and in less than 20 years I destroyed it. The only reason that I am still alive is because I am terrified about eternity thus the reason for the question. I have started an anti-depressant but no medicine can take this away or fix it. When I try to pray it feels as if Heaven is closed to me, I can actually really relate to King Saul at the end of his life when he could not hear from God and in desperation went to the witch of Endor. Any advice, any scripture, any prayers are welcome. When my wife and I separated I left the church that we were going to because she and the kids really loved it and were heavily involved and I did not want to cause them to stop going because I was there. As a result I am currently visiting a new church but don't have an "official" pastor yet.

It pains me that this is going on. Please, please, please find ASAP a good CHRISTIAN counselor and doctor who can set you on another path of treatment and who get you off the anti-depressants.

And get back to your church. I know it's hard, but GOD did not tell you to leave your church and your church family. It has left you more vulnerable than you were before because you're somewhat isolated.

No parent or spouse is perfect. You and your wife and kids need to sit down TOGETHER and you express your sincerest apologies just as you did above. I probably will not fix everything, but it will be a good starting point.

Don't you give up because God never gives up on you. If you ever just need to talk, just PM one of us on the board and I know MANY will gladly lend an ear.

We have a satellite campus down in Panama City. I can give you the campus Pastors name and number and the church address if you need someone whom you can sit in front of and just purge some stuff.

But don't you dare let go of God's unchanging hand. I know it may seem like it can't be fixed, and YOU can't. But know that GOD is ABLE!!!

Lifting a prayer RIGHT NOW!!!

 

[Zaac]

I don't feel comfortable going over the details, but being a soldier suffering from PTSD, I have had a battle with depression. I wen through the whole "pushing away family" thing that is common with PTSD.

At one point, I was so low, that I wished I were dead. I even started thinking about if I decided to do it, what would be the least pain on my family. I know where you're coming from.

In your head, you know it's the wrong answer. And people like to throw scripture at you, and tell you to trust God. But you feel, like you said, as if Heaven is closed to you. You feel no connection to others, and any fun you do have just makes the bad times seem worse.

Brother, I still have a long way to go, but I'm recovering.

First, understand that you aren't alone. I have been there, as have others. Talk to someone. Preferably someone you trust. If you feel you can, you can even PM me, and i will talk with you.

Second, get somewhere by yourself in nature. Leave behind things you could use to harm yourself, such as guns, knives, and rope. Just get outside in the sun, and think for a while. Things seem better in the sun. You can't think clearly about the situation when you're alone in the dark. But out in the sun things seem better.

Excellent advice.

Finally, there will come a crucial moment. You will be forced in your mind to make a decision. What you decide there will make or break you. Lift your head, stick your chest out, and out loud say, "I'm stronger than this. I can make it. No matter what the world throws at me, I'll tackle it."

Brother, you've faced challenges in your life and overcome them. You've had hard times before. While seeming insurmountable right now, this is just another challenge to overcome. And you can overcome it.

Amen!!!raying:raying:

 

[kyredneck]

....There was also King Saul who committed suicide.

....and Samuel told him that he would be joining him where he was:

19 Moreover Jehovah will deliver Israel also with thee into the hand of the Philistines; and to-morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: Jehovah will deliver the host of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines. 1 Sam 28

 

[Revmitchell]

What is? Perseverance of the Saints?

It has noting to do with perseverance of the saints.

 

[kyredneck]

Excellent post SW; thanks for sharing that.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I have started an anti-depressant but no medicine can take this away or fix it.

You said that your wife left you a month ago. So that must mean that you started taking the anti-depressant between 2 or 3 weeks ago or less.

Let me insist that you listen to this statement. There is NNE here at the BaptistBoard who can advise you to stop any medication that your doctor has prescribed.

If you choose to stop a medication, it MUST be after you have counseled with your doctor person-to-person. I have been on anti-depressants before because my medication that controls my epilepsy has a side-effect of depression. Yeah - hurray for me!

I remember what he told me upon prescribing them. He said, "It will take upwards of 6 weeks before you see any change." I have no idea what your doctor has told you, but you MUST see him if you are choosing to make a change in taking the drugs.

No one here can give you medical advice.

I don't take the anti-depressants anymore but deal with the depression in other ways when it rears its ugly head - and as long as I am on the seizure meds - it does.

Please, please stay here and just talk to us about this. Talking helps - believe me. I am putting you on my personal prayer list. Don't do anything rash.

Your family - or at least your relationship with your children CAN be reconciled. Who knows what God can do?

It may take a lot of ways and means to do this: prayer, counseling, meds, exercise, ...... who knows.

You've not been in this place of depression very long from what I have gathered in your revealing post. Rise up, look it in the eye, stare it down and tell it to go to h*ll. That's where it came from anyway.

Your children and yes, even your WIFE will be so devastated if you were to take your life. You think the situation is causing them concern and pain now? You are the father of those children and it is your responsibility to imitate the nature of God to your children and to lead them.

You are in a very, very bad place now - I feel your pain. I planned my own suicide once - I understand. If you take your own life - your children will be in a very, very bad place for the rest of their lives.

Don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You said that your wife left you a month ago. So that must mean that you started taking the anti-depressant between 2 or 3 weeks ago or less.

Let me insist that you listen to this statement. There is NNE here at the BaptistBoard who can advise you to stop any medication that your doctor has prescribed.

If you choose to stop a medication, it MUST be after you have counseled with your doctor person-to-person. I have been on anti-depressants before because my medication that controls my epilepsy has a side-effect of depression. Yeah - hurray for me!

I remember what he told me upon prescribing them. He said, "It will take upwards of 6 weeks before you see any change." I have no idea what your doctor has told you, but you MUST see him if you are choosing to make a change in taking the drugs.

No one here can give you medical advice.

I don't take the anti-depressants anymore but deal with the depression in other ways when it rears its ugly head - and as long as I am on the seizure meds - it does.

Please, please stay here and just talk to us about this. Talking helps - believe me. I am putting you on my personal prayer list. Don't do anything rash.

Your family - or at least your relationship with your children CAN be reconciled. Who knows what God can do?

It may take a lot of ways and means to do this: prayer, counseling, meds, exercise, ...... who knows.

You've not been in this place of depression very long from what I have gathered in your revealing post. Rise up, look it in the eye, stare it down and tell it to go to h*ll. That's where it came from anyway.

Your children and yes, even your WIFE will be so devastated if you were to take your life. You think the situation is causing them concern and pain now? You are the father of those children and it is your responsibility to imitate the nature of God to your children and to lead them.

You are in a very, very bad place now - I feel your pain. I planned my own suicide once - I understand. If you take your own life - your children will be in a very, very bad place for the rest of their lives.

Don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up.

Splendid post sister!:thumbsup: