Is the Christian Right willing to sell its Soul to the Republican Party?

[targus]

If you have read my posts over the last two years you will remember I have said I do not support abortion not denying medical care to anyone. I may be wrong, but I believe you have attacked me on health care because I am not in favor of denying medical care to anyone in need of such care.[SIZE]

Actually a vote for Obama was a vote in favor of abortion. He did nothing to hide the fact that he supports and promotes abortion - even throwing newborn babies on the dirty laundry pile to die of neglect. One of his first acts as President was to fund abortions over seas.

If my memory is correct Israel was punished for sacrificing their children on the altars of false gods, much life

The slaughter of the unborn fits your analogy much better.

Bush and the rightest slaughter of innocent civilians around the world that also enriches the military-industrial complex.

Obama has done nothing to change this. In fact he is escalating the slaughter of innocent civilians in Afghanistan as we speak.

But of course this is not a problem for you - is it?

 

[alatide]

alatide

So, you are actually arguing that belonging to the Republican Party is preventing people from getting saved? And you believe if Christians would switch to the Demon-cratic party they would all come to Christ?

I fail to see how that would work, would you please explain?

No, I'm not arguing that at all. But if you find that ridiculous what would you say if someone told you that a Democrat cannot be a Christian? This has happened to me twice to my face. Americans can chose any political party. They can take a political stance on the issues based on their own understanding of morality and their belief (or non-belief) in God.

My argument is that the Christian right announces that their political opponents, since they do not accept all of their legalism, simply are non-Christian. They argue that whoever votes against their party is voting for abortion, not true in my case. They argue that wars that our country engages in are by definition backed by God and of course are all justified by their faith.

I'm saying that there are good Christian Republicans, good Christian Democrats, good Christian conservatives and good Christian (political) liberals. What should be of central importance to a Christian is furthering the Kingdom of God not furthering the United States of America and certainly not furthering the Republican Party.

The Christian Right has hurt Christ's Church by being so legalistic like the Pharisees and by rejecting those who don't agree with their politics. Politics has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. By claiming that only Republicans can be Christians they have immediately cut the US mission field in half by alienating all Democrats. Their obvious strong arm technique to seize control of the SBC hasn't helped at all either.

 

[Johnv]

One's salvation or religious conviction is not based on one's party affiliation. Presuming lackof salvation simply because party affiliation violates Matt 7:1, and probably a few other scriptures as well.

 

[alatide]

Are you concerned when the cabal that controls the Federal government advocates unrestricted abortion and is pushing legislation to deny medical care to the elderly? I would think that these issues would be of more concern to a Christian than anything else. If my memory is correct Israel was punished for sacrificing their children on the altars of false gods, much like Obama and the leftist slaughter of the unborn.

What did the cabal that controlled the government for the previous 8 years do to eliminate abortion? You are being played for a fool by the Republican Party which mouths the right anti-abortion words and then does little or nothing about it. Why should they? If they actually ended abortion they would lose their lock on your vote.

 

[OldRegular]

No, I'm not arguing that at all. But if you find that ridiculous what would you say if someone told you that a Democrat cannot be a Christian? This has happened to me twice to my face. Americans can chose any political party. They can take a political stance on the issues based on their own understanding of morality and their belief (or non-belief) in God.

You don't believe that the slaughter of unborn or just born children is immoral? You don't believe that denying medical care to the elderly is immoral?

 

[alatide]

Actually a vote for Obama was a vote in favor of abortion. He did nothing to hide the fact that he supports and promotes abortion - even throwing newborn babies on the dirty laundry pile to die of neglect. One of his first acts as President was to fund abortions over seas.



The slaughter of the unborn fits your analogy much better.



Obama has done nothing to change this. In fact he is escalating the slaughter of innocent civilians in Afghanistan as we speak.

But of course this is not a problem for you - is it?

How much, exactly, did the 8 year Bush administration reduce the number of deaths due to abortion? Who made abortioon legal in the first place. Answer: The heavily Republican RvW Court.

 

[OldRegular]

If you have read my posts over the last two years you will remember I have said I do not support abortion not denying medical care to anyone. I may be wrong, but I believe you have attacked me on health care because I am not in favor of denying medical care to anyone in need of such care.

You are wrong. I will not attack anyone for defending innocent life.

If my memory is correct Israel was punished for sacrificing their children on the altars of false gods, much life Bush and the rightest slaughter of innocent civilians around the world that also enriches the military-industrial complex.
[/SIZE]

Your analogy is very poor. There is no comparison between the deliberate slaughter of children and the accidental killing of civilians in war. the correct analogy is that I used: If my memory is correct Israel was punished for sacrificing their children on the altars of false gods, much like Obama and the leftist slaughter of the unborn.

 

[OldRegular]

What did the cabal that controlled the government for the previous 8 years do to eliminate abortion? You are being played for a fool by the Republican Party which mouths the right anti-abortion words and then does little or nothing about it. Why should they? If they actually ended abortion they would lose their lock on your vote.

You continue to post the same simple minded justification for supporting the slaughter of the unborn. The Republican Congress ended Partial Birth Abortion with the help of President Bush, something Clinton would not do.

Obama's first act in office was to renew funding for abortion overseas.

 

[Winman]

I have been a Republican all my life, but you know what? I will not vote for any Republican who supports abortion. I have voted for some Independents in the past but never a Democrat. Why? Because all the Democrats in my state support abortion. Oh, I've heard all the arguments, even from a few Christians that you can't focus on a single issue like this, but to me this is the most important issue of all. I can't help but believe God is going to bring severe judgement and punishment on our country for this horrible crime. I can't imagine any sin to be worse than killing an innocent child who has never hurt anyone.

If there were a pro-life Democrat in my state who did not believe in taxing us to death, I might vote for him or her. It is not so important what party they belong to, it is what they stand for. There have been several prominent Republicans in my state that I refused to vote for because they were pro-abortion.

And I do not know of anyone who thinks a Democrat cannot be a Christian. But it is difficult for me to believe that anyone who supports abortion truly is a Christian. And the overwhelming majority of Democrats support abortion.

Obama has been very outspoken in his support of abortion. At a speech for Planned Parenthood he promised the first thing he would do is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. See for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf0XIRZSTt8&feature=related

But this is not the only reason I usually lean Republican. I am generally in agreement with Republicans on social issues as well. I strongly dislike socialism and the re-distribution of wealth.

And for liberals to act like they are the only ones who care about the poor is arrogant and self-righteous. The vast majority of Americans regardless of party care about the poor, the environment and other issues like that. We simply differ in what we think are real solutions to these problems.

 

[targus]

How much, exactly, did the 8 year Bush administration reduce the number of deaths due to abortion? Who made abortioon legal in the first place. Answer: The heavily Republican RvW Court.

Two come to mind:

Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003
Parental Notice of Abortion Act of 2005

So far all Obama has done is provide funding for overseas abortions.

Obama made no secret of his support for abortion - even the killing of the new born by neglect.

A vote for Obama was a vote for abortion.

Deny it all you want - it is still the truth.

 

[alatide]

One's salvation or religious conviction is not based on one's party affiliation. Presuming lackof salvation simply because party affiliation violates Matt 7:1, and probably a few other scriptures as well.

I agree completely.

 

[alatide]

You don't believe that the slaughter of unborn or just born children is immoral? You don't believe that denying medical care to the elderly is immoral?

You are the one that is against providing medical care to those who currently don't have it. Their blood will be on YOUR hands not mine. For the 50th time I am against abortion. I also am against the Republican hypocrisy that talks about ending abortion and then does almost nothing about it.

 

[targus]

You are the one that is against providing medical care to those who currently don't have it.

Why do you keep repeating this falsehood?

Do you truly not understand the difference between medical insurance and medical care?

Their blood will be on YOUR hands not mine. For the 50th time I am against abortion. I also am against the Republican hypocrisy that talks about ending abortion and then does almost nothing about it.

Right... you just knowingly voted for the guy that promised to expand abortion. But you are against abortion. Uhhhh.... ok.... I guess.

 

[targus]

I also am against the Republican hypocrisy that talks about ending abortion and then does almost nothing about it.

I guessed you missed this....

Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003
Parental Notice of Abortion Act of 2005

 

[alatide]

Why do you keep repeating this falsehood?

Do you truly not understand the difference between medical insurance and medical care?




Right... you just knowingly voted for the guy that promised to expand abortion. But you are against abortion. Uhhhh.... ok.... I guess.

I do have trouble understanding irrational statements. Maybe you can explain this to me. Is this the story that anybody can simply go to the hospital today and get free medical care? I'll bet you've never done this and don't know anyone who has. Am I right? I have had friends who struggled along without insurance and believe me it's not easy to stay alive.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I do have trouble understanding irrational statements. Maybe you can explain this to me. Is this the story that anybody can simply go to the hospital today and get free medical care? I'll bet you've never done this and don't know anyone who has. Am I right? I have had friends who struggled along without insurance and believe me it's not easy to stay alive.

I doubt they know anyone who is not insured. Also there seems to be a believe held by some here that anyone who does not have health insurance is lazy, jobless and will not try.

My brother, a farmer who has worked hard all his life but earned little, had not health insurance until he turned 65 and is now covered by Medicare. Fortunately he was healthy and had no serious accidents on the farm. Farming is a dangerous occupation.

There are many working folk who do not have health insurance provided by their employer and cannot afford to buy it on their own. So they are opted out by the "death panels" at the insurance companies. Remember insurance companies are in business, not to really insure people, but to make money.

 

[Winman]

I do have trouble understanding irrational statements. Maybe you can explain this to me. Is this the story that anybody can simply go to the hospital today and get free medical care? I'll bet you've never done this and don't know anyone who has. Am I right? I have had friends who struggled along without insurance and believe me it's not easy to stay alive.

Are you sure you are an engineer? Not everybody can go to the hospital for free medical care. I cannot. Why? because I have a job and make too much income. I do not qualify for free care. But that's OK, I have a fairly good health plan through my employer. So again, it is not free, money is deducted out of my paycheck each week to pay for the plan. My employer also pays into this plan.

But if I was on welfare I could go down and get free health care right now. If my income was very low I might qualify for programs like Medicaid, and children can get free healthcare under a program called CHIP (Children's Health Insurance Program). There are many other local programs that are available also.

And I know people who get free health care. Just because you don't know someone like this doesn't mean they don't exist. There are millions of people, especially children of low income or single parent families who get free health care.

But even there, it's not really free. Doctor's get paid, medicine and supplies cost money. It has to come from somewhere. And it does. It comes out of your paycheck every week in the form of taxes.

Healthcare is never free, somebody always pays, and it is usually the average citizen with a job. The poor don't pay, and the rich don't need health insurance.

 

[alatide]

Are you sure you are an engineer? Not everybody can go to the hospital for free medical care. I cannot. Why? because I have a job and make too much income. I do not qualify for free care. But that's OK, I have a fairly good health plan through my employer. So again, it is not free, money is deducted out of my paycheck each week to pay for the plan. My employer also pays into this plan.

But if I was on welfare I could go down and get free health care right now. If my income was very low I might qualify for programs like Medicaid, and children can get free healthcare under a program called CHIP (Children's Health Insurance Program). There are many other local programs that are available also.

And I know people who get free health care. Just because you don't know someone like this doesn't mean they don't exist. There are millions of people, especially children of low income or single parent families who get free health care.

But even there, it's not really free. Doctor's get paid, medicine and supplies cost money. It has to come from somewhere. And it does. It comes out of your paycheck every week in the form of taxes.

Healthcare is never free, somebody always pays, and it is usually the average citizen with a job. The poor don't pay, and the rich don't need health insurance.

Healthcare is never free, somebody always pays, and it is usually the average citizen with a job. The poor don't pay, and the rich don't need health insurance.

I agree with this statement. For the country as a whole it would be more efficient to plan for taking care of its citizens rather than have them come to hospital emergency rooms with a common cold.

 

[OldRegular]

I doubt they know anyone who is not insured. Also there seems to be a believe held by some here that anyone who does not have health insurance is lazy, jobless and will not try.

That is rather a simple minded response. Obviously all people who are against socialism and support the government our founders gave us are rich. Furthermore, they all exist by special creation since they have no parents to love and care for. You socialists are pathetic in your understanding of reality.

My brother, a farmer who has worked hard all his life but earned little, had not health insurance until he turned 65 and is now covered by Medicare. Fortunately he was healthy and had no serious accidents on the farm. Farming is a dangerous occupation.

There are many working folk who do not have health insurance provided by their employer and cannot afford to buy it on their own. So they are opted out by the "death panels" at the insurance companies. Remember insurance companies are in business, not to really insure people, but to make money. [/SIZE]

Would it also be fair to say that farmers are in business to make money?

 

[OldRegular]

I do have trouble understanding irrational statements. Maybe you can explain this to me. Is this the story that anybody can simply go to the hospital today and get free medical care? I'll bet you've never done this and don't know anyone who has. Am I right? I have had friends who struggled along without insurance and believe me it's not easy to stay alive.

Well they could not get free medical care at the University of Chicago Hospital because Michelle Obama had them transferred to other hospitals.